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My wife and I have been having problems for a few months.

We have the typical disagreements about were to spend the holidays and such. I recently finished college and we just moved into a new house, so I'm home a lot more than I used to be. We are going to individual counseling and have gone together once, but only after I forced the issue.

She has told her entire family about the issues we are having and this has caused me discomfort when dealing with them. Recently, a friend approached me to tell me she was seen with another man. The day of the incident I was at work and she was off. She told me she was getting together with some old co-workers of hers and not with this man. Of course, this raised questions and knocked out my trust level. So, I started looking through our phone records and found she has been communicating with this man regularly when I'm not at home or just before I get there.

A couple of weeks ago, we both worked from home, which she was surprised about. I witnessed her, by accident, creating an e-mail to this man stating:

Eddie is home today. Don't call me here.

I noted the e-mail address and as soon as she realized I might see it, she closed the e-mail and didn't send it. I was just getting back into the room after getting some coffee. I waited two weeks to talk to her about it and asked her who she was sending it to and why. She said, she was sending it to her sister, so I asked what the e-mail address was and needless to say it didn't match up. So I asked again, and she said it might have been this man. She then got very angry about it. I asked her why she would send this and she said, "I don't know". Seeing the anger I decided to drop it and bring it up again later. So this week, I brought it up again and she tried to pawn it off on her sister and I asked the e-mail address again, of course, she gave me two addresses which were incorrect. I told her they weren't the ones and she said, then I don't know what to tell you. I asked why she sent it again, I don't know. I said that is unacceptable as an answer. She started getting angry again and threated to leave. This is not the first time. In fact, anytime I bring up a tough subject she either leaves or walks out of the room.

I have been hearing a lot of things she has been saying about me to her family and friends like, I drink every night, I get angry all the time, I don't do anything around the house, well, I don't drink at all, I'm a very level headed person, and I do most of the chores around the house.

Last night, I asked her what she has been telling people about our relationship and she said, we are having problems. I said, I know that isn't everything. Well, then she got out of bed to leave the conversation and sleep on the couch saying she was really tired. I talked her back into to bed and we talked a bit, but not about what I wanted to talk about. I told her if everytime I bring up a tough question she leaves, then I'll stop doing it, but she doesn't want that, she wants me to share my feelings.

So, here is what I think, I think she is talking bad about me to her family and friends and I think she is having an emotional affair with this man.

One more thing, I have been catching her telling me lies. For instance, I went to the counselor and was informed she met with a priest and he recommended the counselor. I didn't know she met with the priest. So I confronted her about this and asked what she told me she was doing, she said she was going to the store.

So I asked, what other times have you told me one thing and did another. At that point, she get really angry and threated to leave. Then she went on about how I was accusing her of cheating, which I replied I didn't say that, but it is interesting that you would bring it up. She didn't go, but we haven't talked about it since.

Any advice would be appreciated.

She wants out.
But she hasn't got the courage to tell you.
So instead of talking to you about it, she's talking to everyone else (and lying too... so much easier to make YOU the guilty one) and refusing to face you, by storming off, and refusing to discuss the matter.

Forgive my bluntness, I apologise.
I used to work with a counselling organisation (which doesn't make me right, I just recognise the behaviour pattern).
But how many more signals do you need?

Hi, Alexandra. Thank you for responding.

I had a feeling that was the case, but I just needed some neutral advice. I just checked one of our accounts and there is a substantial amount of money missing, so I'm figuring that is for a lawyer.

I had a feeling she wanted out before, but after we went to counseling together we decided to work things out. I just can't believe it. Of course, lying to me makes it easier, but why keep telling me she loves me.

Well, look at it this way... it puts the onus on you to do something about it, and she will then declare that she always loved you, and doesn't understand why you're behaving this way...In other words, if she says she loves you, when you do something to resolve the problem, all the guilt will be yours, too....

This is really sad. I'm so sorry.
It may actually be a bit of a relief fo you though....
One you've decided to do something, then it may well be like a load's lifted....
are there children?

My first husband did sort of the same thing to me. He kept seeing the woman, and quite honestly would have been happy to keep it that way (married to me and seeing her) - but I was not willing to live like that.

Finally I filed for divorce. It was a very hard decision, as I had truly wanted our marriage to work out. Not everything had been his fault, I had made mistakes, too. But in the end, he was unwilling to try, and he was unwilling to give up the other woman.

I was unwilling to bring up two children in that kind of situation. So I (broken hearted) ended it.

I am now re-married to a wonderful man who considers my first 2 kids his own, and we have a child together as well.

A marriage can only be made to work if both parties try, one is not enough. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry, and I hope that things will work out; but start to prepare and protect yourself.

Thank you both for your replies.

No kids, which kind of makes it easier. I logged into our joint account and noticed she was transfering money out today to her personal account, so I called her on it. It was a hefty amount. At first, she lied about it, and then finally told me she had packed a suitcase this morning for a "few" days and needed the money. I asked her to cancel the transaction and to use the money from our other joint account for expenses, plenty there, so she agreed and cancelled it. The amount was good for a lawyer retainer if you know what I mean, but my understanding is that legally when someone seperates the money's stay frozen.

Yeah, I don't think she is willing to try anymore, especially, with a new bo in the picture. It is sad, but I saw it coming I just didn't want to accept it.

Just an update, my WAW didn't come home last night and I haven't heard from her since talking to her yesterday. I also noticed she changed our account information and then changed it back after I caught her transferring the money. She did say something odd yesterday though, she said she wasn't going to use the money for a vacation, so I'm thinking she left town. Weird stuff. She had my neighbor call me this morning to see if I was home, which was weird, and my neighbor was honest about it and said, I don't know what is going on and I asked her to leave herself out of the situation because she shouldn't be involved. Funny how she left, but is still checking up on me.

I also noticed my journal was not in the place I normally keep it when I got home last night, so I'm guessing, she invaded my privacy and read it. Which made me think about a question she asked me when I got home from a trip recently as to where it was.

Thanks for listening any advice would be appreciated.

I think for the most part now you have to make sure you safeguard your emotional state, and decide now what your options are...
If she came back, at any point, and asked to try again, would you concede?

I'm not sure if I would concede. I talked to my lawyer this morning and was advised to move half of my assets out of the account, so I did. She has a history of being angry and violent, she has hit me in the past, so I talked to Domestic Abuse social worker and I'm meeting with them next week.

I think I would let her come home, but there would be some conditions for it. Don't ask me what though, I'm not sure. I do know, I'm getting tired of doing all the work around the house because she has withdrawn. I'm feel sorry for her as I've come to realize more and more that she is very depressed and taking all of her emotions out on me and ruining our marriage in the process. She probably things the grass is greener on the other side, she feels trapped, but if you have these inner issues now and don't face them, then I would assume any relationship in the future would be doomed.

I don't really have any advice to offer. I just want to tell you that I'm sorry to read about what is happening with your marriage, and I think you are handling it very maturely and rationally. It also seems like you have a lot of clarity about what is going on with her.

Good luck with everything.

One thing (or rather 2) I will warn you about, just in case your lawyer hasn't:

1. Don't start going out with other women- it is very tempting when you are hurt and lonely during this time (I know from experience) but you lose the "high ground" in court.
2. If your wife does come back, do not have sex with her unless you are absolutely sure that you 2 are getting back together. Having physical relations with your spouse can be used by her attorney as your having "forgiven her". This was something my lawyer was very careful to warn me about. Plus, from an emotional standpoint, getting back into the physical side of things just draws everything out longer. Don't let her play with you.

She probably has your neighbor watching the house because she wants to come and take stuff out. Make sure you change the locks - all of them.

Thank you for the support!

My lawyer advised against changing the locks until she tells me she is leaving for sure and she can come by and take her stuff out if she would like, I really don't care about that.

As for sex, I already cut it off.

Just hate to see you get cleaned out of everything!

Women especially, are bad about doing that. We can be rather spiteful at times. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

There are always two sides of the story...

I'm wondering if you were being trustowrthy as well...

Sometimes the other persons perspective can be so different but just as valuable as ours...

Have you checked yourself as to what behaviour of yours could have given your wife permission to share these problems with family, friends, co workers and finally this particular man, who in my opinion was just looking for an opening.....

Why couldn't she talk to you about the problems in your marriage?

Seems to be some holes in your story.. what are you leaving out?

I'm just curious...

In my long experience, it doesn't always "take two to tango"... there are definitely 'givers' and 'takers' and there are doormats too...of both genders....
The fact that eddie has had the courage to come in on forum and seek predominantly female advice is quite a commendable thing in itself....
That said, I daresay his ex is going through the hoops, guilt and resentment-wise.... and she probably doesn't really like herself very much at the moment. So I do spare a thought for her.... She can't be having a very nice time, even if she is at the crux of it....

I always believed we had an open relationship. We share everything. I am as honest with her about positive and negative items as can be.

Thank you for the comment Alexandra, I felt talking with women would be the best avenue, as you can imagine my male friends are saying she left, good.

Bella, I appreciate your concern, but she came home today and didn't clean me out. That was a relief. I purchased some door jams in order to secure the house when I'm home and leave just in case of a surprise visit.

She called me this morning to see if I was home, but I wasn't it. She said she wanted to drop by and pick up some things, so she is extending her time away from home. I asked her since this is the case to let me know before she comes over everytime. I told her about calling my lawyer and I felt her heart drop through the phone. I felt bad. Here is the stinker, she left her phone in my car and I have it, but I'm out of town, so she asked me to leave it at the house tomorrow, but I most likely won't be home until the following day. So, I asked her to meet with me on Monday so I can give it to her. She has my Cd's as well.

Are fate forces pushing us to meet face to face at this time or is it just coincidence?

As for the other side of the story, I'll give you some of my background. I'm logical with everything I do, my work is logical, my decisions are logical, so I'm sure there have been times when I thought I was giving support, but I really wasn't and there have been times, when I just didn't want to talk anymore about difficult issues, like where to spend the holidays, etc... She shares everything with her family it has been one of our sticking points for years. Everytime something would happen to us in our relationship she would tell them and when we got together I always felt like their eyes were burning a hole through me. I know my inner core is a bit confused right now and I'm trying to figure it out. I'm in decent physical shape, though losing my hair a bit. I read a lot of books on self-help and I love sudoku. My favorite color is red and I have brown eyes. LOL. I feel like I'm filling out one of those online chat room profiles....

Seriously though, I truly love my wife, I show a ton of affection, sometimes too much, I listen to her even when I don't want to, I bring her flowers once a week, I hold the door for her, I open the door for her to get into the car, I take time for her even when I don't have it, I clean around the house, yes, even the bathrooms and I do work around the house, projects, etc....

Again, ladies, thank you so very much for listening and giving your advice, it has been such a tremendous help for through this difficult time. I'm so glad I came to this forum and thank you for letting a male into your realm.

Maybe you guys are being brought together! Have you talked about giving counseling a try?

I would also recommen a book to you (I seem to do this a lot, LOL) It's called "The 5 Love Languages".

It talks about the fact that people tend to feel and express love in five major "languages": physical touch, words of affirmation, giving & receiving gifts, quality time, and acts of service. If spouses have two radically different languages, then even if you feel like you are expressing love to your wife, she may not be getting it.

The example I like to use is this: my husband spends all weekend building me a dining room table (his language is acts of service) but then doesn't understand why I am upset because he didn't spend any time with me (because my love language is quality time). This sounds kind of silly and it is a rather elemnetary example - but you get the idea.

Think about the things your wife has most often done for you in the past (especially on special occasions). You might be able to figure out her love language from that. But the book has much more helpful tips and a lot of communication tips, too.

And counseling really is a good idea. It is not the sign of weakness as some people think, it is just getting to the root of a problem (this is more for your wife than you.)

My prayers are with both of you.

"Fate" may deal the hand, but the play is up to us...
If you feel uncomfortable doing this, there is always the option of leaving the phone at an agreed pick-up point, like a shop you both know well, or the neighbour's... Ask her to leave the CD's too, please....
If you don't want to meet her, there are a number of choices available to you...
If you DO want to meet her, that's still your choice....

Hi, Ladies. Again, I appreciate you taking the time to post.

I picked up a few books this weekend, Relationship Rescue, A purpose driven life and spiritual divorce. I will pick up The 5 Love Languages as recommended.

We have been to a marriage counselor together once and I had to force the issue. It was a real good session and for a week, we talked for hours on end, but it became too draining and she closed up again.

As for meeting, I dropped off her stuff at her works front desk, called her to let her know to pick it up and she sounded disappointed. She said, I have your Cd's, I told her they weren't that important to me. I told her I didn't want her to feel she had to meet up with me in order to get her stuff so that is why I did it. She then suggested meeting up this afternoon in order to give me the Cd's again, I said they aren't that important to me, then we had a nice conversation for about twenty minutes and told each other that we miss each other, so that was nice.

I told her to call me or e-mail me if she would like to talk or have lunch this week, so we will see.

I'm not sure why she couldn't talk to me about it. We have tried to have conversation, but when the conversations became difficult she would either leave the room or the house. Her mother has a hard time with conflict as well and tries to avoid it. I'm sure there were times I didn't listen and I'm sure their have been times my frame was imposing. I'm 6'3" and she is 5'4" and there have been times I'm sure she was afraid to talk to me. It takes a lot to get me angry and at those times I usually take a deep breath so that might have given her an indication I was angry and that might have scared her.

I feel for her as well and we have talked twice on the phone the past two days, which has been really nice. She was upset we didn't meet up yesterday and said she wanted to meet today to give me my cd's. I said, I don't really need them, so let's cut to the chase, you want to just see me right? And she was like yes, so I said, well, instead of spending five minutes together lets have lunch sometime this week and she agreed, so we are having lunch tomorrow and she agreed to go to marriage counseling tomorrow night, so I'm hopeful at this point and protective at the same time.

I'm definitely a giver in this situation, I do a ton of the house work, cooking, fixing items around the house, spend time with her whenever she is available. She works a lot and doesn't have a ton of time. Today, she said, you always have time for me don't you and I said all my time is for you and she said I know that. I think she may feel she is selling me short. What do you ladies think?

I'm thinking counselling is a great idea.
I'm thinking that she really has to meet you half way on this.
I'm thinking you may need to find out why, if she acknowleges what you do for her, what it is she feels you're NOT doing for her....
I'm thinking it may have got to the point where you're better friends than you are married partners....
I'm thinking it's worth a shot, but that nothing is permanent, and sometimes, the best thing is to break rather than make - but in friendship rather than alacrity.
I'm thinking you're doing ok, eddie. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good luck, and breathe deeply, always.

Thanks Alexandra.

I agree with everything Alexandra saide!

And it may just be that with the little bit of time and thinking that she's had so far, your wife has had a chance to realize some mistakes.

Reconciliation is never an easy thing, but marriages that make it through are often some of the strongest afterwards. It's one of the worst things a marriage can go through, so if you twon can weather this and get through it, then you can say - "We can handle anything"

My prayers are with you, no matter how things turn out.

I'm going to tell her tonight at counseling that I forgive her for the mistakes that she has made in the past and I have let go of them at this point. I'm not saying they are reconciled, but they are forgiven.

I'm treating our lunch as a "date" and not bringing up anything in the past only typical conversation. You ladies have been an incredible help for me. I have begun to find myself, forgive myself, forgive her, and have started to heal. I'm sure this is just one of the ups of the situation, but I just wanted you to know how happy I am that you have taken the time to give me support. May God bless you both.

It's only my opinion, but I would hesitate and hold back on the 'forgiven' part, and I'll explain why....
Right now, she may well be feeling very guilty about some of the things she has done. She's embarassed by the fact that you have taken it so well, and that you are prepared to meet with her and discuss things... She may well be feeling quite wretched, confused and unsure of herself...As I said, you may want to establish where she feels there are things lacking from your side...
So to tell her she's forgiven, would only, at this point, rub salt in the wounds, and perhaps make her feel even more wretched.
It's a good thing to forgive, and I think you are wise to deal with it in this way, but by telling someone they're forgiven, you run the risk of making yourself look very 'Holier-than-thou'....

To forgive someone means to release yourself from the burden of hurt too... If you're going to forgive, you have to be prepared to really consign things to the past, and not bring them up again, as a reasonable fulcrum or 'weapon' in future.
That's why I would just go in with an open mind.... and wait and see what she says.
More than anything else, the best thing you can do right now, is to just listen....

Hi, Alexandra. Hope you are doing well.

I'll just go in with an open mind then. Maybe, I haven't truly forgiven her, but have forgiven myself about the situation, accepted it and I'm prepared to handle it?

I'll just open my ears, shut my mouth, take notes, and listen.

Thank you for the advice and your time.

I think you're doing everything right.... My only concern for you is that this is all very sudden and recent, so that all your emotions are in a turmoil, too... you both have a right to, and need your space... everything seems to have happened very fast, so although you are probably very much in control on the outside, and planning meticulously how things may go, maybe inside there's a whole lot of stuff going on, and you need to give that air.... Just go along and expect nothing. In that way, it will all be a gift. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, this is all of a sudden and very recent. My guess is that she has been feeling this way for a long time and hasn't expressed herself. She just told me she was feeling this way about a month ago, so I'm kind of in panic mode.

So, you can see my disappointment in the lack of effort on working on the relationship for only one month, excluding weekends.

I just got an e-mail from here and we are going to lunch soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Well, just got back from lunch and had a very good time. We joked, laughed, small talk and enjoyed ourselves. We took a nice walk and then she told me she is sorry for what is going on, so I told her it is OK and she is entitled to her feelings. She looked a bit shocked and she started to cry, so I gave her my hankerchief and wiped her eyes for her. We talked some more about good times and she told me I looked really good. She felt my abs and we hugged and gave a kiss on the cheek. So it was nice, she didn't want to let go of my hand when we departed, so I liked that as well.

She told me she will might leave work early on Friday to head over to the house, so I asked her if she was going to pick up more of her belongings and she said, no, I just want to get some things done around the house and she said, she might stop by on Sunday to do some weeding in the garden, so I'm guessing she is going for a trial period of some kind to see how she feels. What do you all think?

We had our meeting last night and it went OK. My wife finally let me know how she is feeling about life. Trapped, controlled and just not happy. The counselor asked for examples, here is one: Well, I would feel like going out to the movies so I would say to myself what would Eddie want to do, he probably would just want to rent one and stay home, so I would suggest that instead of what I really wanted to do.

Needless to say, I was upset. I felt controlled. I mean, how can someone think to ask a question, assume what the other is going to say, and then change their own mind and wants in order to please the other and then hold them responsible for the choice? Then say she felt controlled.

When asked about this she said, she has always felt this way being the eldest in her family that she had to make these types of sacrifices. Obviously, I feel sorry for her in this respect because she was conditioned for this, but I also feel very manipulated.

The counselor asked if she wants to work on the relationship and she said I don't know, I've just had enough. If we had started six weeks ago, then maybe, but she has had enough. I explained to her I didn't know she was feeling this way and if I did I would have paid more attention. I said, I can't change the past, but only the future, so I'm hoping she understands that, time will tell.

I explained to the counselor about the two times she has hit me and the last incident were she was sitting on top of me screaming and holding me down. About an hour after the session, my wife called me and said, "I don't want the counselor thinking I abuse you." and I said, "I don't know what the counselor thinks and I don't know what to tell you. All I can say is that is what happened." She said, "Well, our hands were intertwined" I said, I know, but the only way I would have been able to get you off of me would have been to forceably remove you. So, she repeated "Well, our hands were intertwined" and I said, "I don't know what to tell you that is what happened."

I have a meeting tonight with an abused husbands counseling group, so I'm going to try and see if there are any other instances that might have happened that I didn't interpret that way.

A lot of positive things came out of the session, I now understand how and why my wife feels the way that she does. I understand how we can change the patterns that have assisted that behavior of her feeling controlled and trapped. She told me she loves me and that I'm her best friend, but she isn't happy at this time and doesn't know if she can be. It was a great session and a great day.

She said she enjoyed our "date" during the day and that I tugged at her heart, but so much of it is still covered in black. I said to her, well, I'll keep on tugging until the black is gone if you let me and suggested that we have more dates. We scheduled an appointment in three weeks to meet the counselor again and my wife said she is going to stop by the house and do some chores the next couple of days, which is really nice. Thanks for listening.

I'm having a tough time today. I saw her yesterday and she looked happy to see me, but I wasn't happy to see her at the time, but now I'm having a hard time with the encounter.

The meeting with the abuse counselor went very well and I learned of repressed feelings I had during the encounters and others I had forgotten.

I've been doing a lot of work around the house and my wife stopped by on Sunday to do some weeding and then redecorated the living room. I thought that was a bit odd. I hope she comes home soon.

Eddie she might of came home Sunday to see how it felt being back. If things went okay she might want to return but don't know how to tell you yet. I hope it all works out for you.

I'm glad you are going to the abuse counselor. Does she realize she has abused you in the past or does she make excuses? It might be a good idea for her to see a couselor too. She might not go if she doesn't feel their is an abuse problem though.

Good luck.

Leigh A

Hi Eddie.
Somehow I missed your other posts!
It sounds like the two of you had a pretty good counseling session, though. That's good.

But you said you weren't too happy to see her when she came over on Sunday. Was there a particular reason why? or did it have to do with some things that were brought up in you abuse counseling?

I must admit, it took a little bit for me to connect your name between this forum and the forum where we discussed abused husbands. When I did I was a but surprised to find that you wanted to stay with your wife. On the other hand it is very common for victims to stay with their abuser.

Maybe you should visit over in the domestic violence section some, or the abuse survivors (I'm in there a lot).

But i'm glad you have people close by that you can talk to and go to, that does make a huge difference.

Take care. {{{hugs}}}

I'm hesitating to bring this into forum, because I don't want to come over as preaching or proselytising... If anyone is offended, i'll come back in and edit the post....

This particular tendency, is seen in Buddhism, as 'negative attachment' or 'clinging'....

Quite simply, we hold on to something because quite frankly - it's all we've got. "Better the Devil you know"... It provides some form of emotional security, even though it has negative effects which are apt to hurt us. In this case, sadly, very physically.
maybe a way of begining to understand, and unravel the pain, is to determine why the 'attachment' to such a condition or situation, is ocurring...I know there is love there, I do not dispute that... But is it constructive?
There is an element of Control and this in turn hides a fear of not being heard, of being misundestood, and in turn, a resistance to submit ones' self to another's control....

Eddie, I wish you nothing but Peace, Serenity and Joy.

Thank you.

Hi, Ladies.

Well, I have seen the counselor once and I'm going again tonight. I believe she had never realized it until it was brought up in the counseling session even though we have talked about it.

She called me last night, sounded a bit drunk, so we could meet up this morning and I could give her mail to her. So, we met up this morning and I told her she looked great and smelled great. She reciprocated and I kissed her on the cheek. It was very nice.

I asked her to go out sometime and she said she we'll see, so I took that as a no. She was then very inquisitive about what I was doing this weekend and I told her, don't worry about it. Then, she was like I went to happy hour last night with these friends of hers and I said I'm glad you had a good time.

So, she called me twice this morning to ask me what I'm doing for the weekend and I gave her some information and then she asked if I'm working from home tomorrow and I didn't tell her yes or no. My guess is she is trying to come home when I'm not there which is fine. I asked her again if she would like to go out and she said she would think about it.

So, I'm not sure what to think at this time, but I can tell it is killing her not to know what I'm doing all the time and that I'm handling the situation so well. I've been doing work on the house and treating it as an investment at this time.

I've been taking care of myself, working out, keeping busy, praying, meditating and going out with friends. I still miss her though.

Hi, Ladies.

Well, I ran into my wife this morning, by accident, and she didn't have her wedding ring on. So, I asked her how long she hasn't been wearing it and she said a couple of days. So, I said, well, I've seen you the past couple of days and everytime you had it on. Do you only put it on when you see me? She said, no, I just, I don't know. I then said, OK, we need to have a serious talk and you need to make time for it.

I know not wearing the ring doesn't make things final, but it has given me some peace at this point as odd as that sounds. I met with the abuse counselor again last night and had a really good time expressing myself. Should I stop wearing my ring too? Confused.

It is totally up to you whether you want to stop wearing your ring. If you still feel married and are wanting to work it out, then by all measn leave it on!

But I will warn you, from personal experience; when the other person takes off the wedding band, it usually means they have given up. It is amazing what that little circle of gold means. When my first husband and I were having trouble, and I started finding e-mails on the computer (like you); I desperately wanted things to work out.

But then one day I was going through the desk trying to find some white-out (or seomthing) and I found his wedding band instead. My heart sank, because the only times he had ever taken it off were when he did flight checks (he flew helicopters - and it could dangerous to wear rings while doing a flight check, people lose fingers that way!). I knew then that there was no hope for us, and he confirmed it for me that night when I confronted him with it.

Maybe, hopefully, your situation will be different. But the fact is, if she is not wearing her ring- she is presenting herslef to the world - and other men, as available.

Yeah, I figured as much. I took it off and haven't put it on since. So, I guess we are both presenting ourselves to the world.

She called me on Friday afternoon to talk, but I pretty much blew her off. I just want some finality at this point.

Well, my wife e-mailed me about meeting on Saturday, which I can't do, so I e-mailed her and called her to try to set up a time and she is avoiding me like the plague.

Any suggestions?

let her do the running for a change... the only reason folk think they can dangle us from a string, is if we give them the indication we're holding on to the other end...
She thinks if she yanks, you'll come running. maybe now is the time to let her know she can't just snap her fingers....

Be distant, and be independent. But be nice. Just go for Life.

Yeah, I'm being patient and distant as best I can, but the bottom line is I'm ready to get this over with.

She wants to meet on Saturday, but I cannot do it at all and she doesn't want to bend on the day. My guess is that she is getting a moving truck and wants to let me know that morning, so I want to layout what can and can't be taken. You know?

Hello Ladies. Here is an update.

My wife and I spoke yesterday and agreed to have dinner tonight. Then, last night she called me and insisted on meeting Saturday morning. I told her I was unavailable. She got very angry at me about it, but I stuck to my guns. She then said, well, I'm going to stop by the house and pick up some stuff. So, I said, what stuff? She said, stuff. I said, OK, but understand legally you are unable allowed to take personal items and anything you brought into the marriage from the house. You are not allowed to remove any furniture, pictures, or items that have been accumulated during the marriage. Legally, these items are to stay in the house and be divided at a future date when we can agree on them. She then got very angry and stated it is my house too. I said, I understand it is your house too, but this is the law because you left anything within the house acquired during the marriage stays.

She was very mad at me and started asking me if I have retained a lawyer. I told her that is the last thing I want to have to do, but I'm telling you this to save you from making any mistakes. I told her I want to be civil about the situation and asked her to calm down.

It was interesting. She hasn't contaced a lawyer yet or so she says and she is probably very upset that I'm aware she most likely wanted to get me out of the house for a while so family and friends could clean out the house. I guess she thinks I'm stupid.

My ex-sister-in-law did that to my brother.

She, (well, actually she didn't come at all, it was her dad and her brother) came and tooke everything out of the house except the master bedroom suite and the huge television armiore. I'm suuming they didn't take those because they were so big , they figured they would come ack for a second haul.

Luckily my brother happened to come back by the house. He and my Dad changed every lock on the place.

It was a very ugly divorce.

My divorce wasn't a happy one - but we at least managed to be civil about dividing of the assets. My main goal was to make things as painless as possible for the children, so he probably walked away with a lot more than he should have - but hey, I'm happy now with a wonderful husband. So it all worked out in the long run.

That's the thing to keep your eye on, this painful and hurtful part won't last forever. And as long as you continue to conduct yourslef with dignity (which you have been doing a wonderful job of BTW!) then you will always be able to hod your head up high - and it will be a lot easier to forgive her in the end. Because she will come to seem quite pitiable to you.

Hi, Bella. Thank you very much for your kind words. I feel I'm handling the situation very well and the support I have received from family, friends and God have been unbelievable.

Yesterday morning, I had a dream that Jesus was paging me. It was awesome!

I just talked to my lawyer and I have to provide my wife with the inventory and ask her what she feels she is entitled to, then I have to be at the house when she comes by to remove the items in order to ensure items removed are the ones agreed upon. That is going to be tough, I know it, but it must be done.

While talking to my wife last night, I could feel she is not doing well and having a hard time with me handling it so well. I feel bad for her at this point because she is surrounding herself with her family after she complained about how they have controlled her entire life and she is letting them do it again. It is very sad.

This is where you have to completely separate the Emotional form the Practical, and is something I learned during my separation and divorce....

I would personally proceed as follows:

1) Ask her, next time you speak to her, if she is intending that this move out, be permanent. In other words, is she harbouring any desire or wish to come back to you in the future, or not? Does she see you two ever getting back together?

(I suspect she'll squirm at this, and either tell you she hasn't made her mind up, she's not sure, and resent you for trying to pin her down....SO:)

If the answer is a definite 'NO' tell her that you want her to either put it in writing, and to date it, or accept that you are going to change the locks. Tell her you are willing to put that in writing, and do so, if necessary.

If the Answer is a definite 'YES' (ie, she does intend to come back) then tell her you want her back by a near specific date. No argument.

However, I doubt, from the sound of it, whether she'll be happy with this one....
I would consider, if I were you, buying a different lock, now.....

Tell her you have now consulted with a lawyer, and that you are going to be preparing a full inventory of all contents. You will mark what is yours, what is hers, and what is joint. Before anything is removed from the house, you will be submitting one to your lawyer, and one to her. You expect her to sign the copy for the lawyer, and your copy.

You really DO have to do this, and you really DO have to be very strong, and you really DO have to be completely Practical and innemotive on this one, Eddie....

It's now the only way to go. And change the locks, anyway. But tell her about it....It's only fair.

Hi, Alexandra.

I completed the inventory last night and marked the items I believe she is entitled to. I was kind enough to provide her with some of the furnishings from the home, so she isn't without anything. I provided her with utensils, plates, bowls, etc....

So, I think I'm being very fair at this point. My lawyer instructed me I can change the locks after she has removed all of her possessions and especially if she states she has no intention of coming back, so I have purchased the locks and installed them at this time. Considering I will be at the house when she is moving the items out this will not be a problem.

I'm still supposed to meet with her tonight, so we can hang out and talk. Hopefully, she keeps the commitment, but time will tell. If she does not, I have to e-mail her the list and stipulate a response within a certain time period, so she can still keep her plans to move items out on Saturday.

At this point though, everything is just hypothetical, but my gut is telling me she wanted to get me out of the house so she could have someone come by and clean me out.

I'm handling this situation as a business transaction at this point and I have been treating the house as an investment property. I have separated my feelings from the situation when dealing with property and other interest.

I will ask her the next time I talk to her if she intends on ever coming back as you have suggested and deal with the answer. By the way the situation is going right now, I believe she will not be coming back, so I'm dealing with that reality right now. I do feel bad for her though, I really think she doesn't have a grasp of the situation.

I'm going to draw up a document for her to sign regarding the possessions as well as her intentions with the relationship. It is going to be tough to ask for finality, but this is something that needs to be done.

Do you think maybe I'm rushing things a bit? Or am I just protecting myself from further hurt? Also, I'm starting to notice mutual friends are not as friendly with me is this to be expected?

Thanks again for all of your help this has been an unbelievable help for my emotional, mental, and physical well being. God Bless You!

I think probably, at the moment you must be flying 'by the seat of your pants' as this is probably an extremely bizarre and unreal situation... I think, as far as my opinion goes and for what it's worth, you are doing the very best you can with the tools you've got, quite frankly. I would certainly sleep on major decisions...If it helps (and in a way, on forum, you're doing this already!) write your important thoughts and decisions down - then go back to them the next day, and see if you still feel the same. NOTE: Legally-based decisions aren't up for this kind of scrutiny, as you're kind of bound by the Law...But there's flexibility everywhere.
I think you've got a good and sensible grip on it.
The important thing, I'm sorry to say*, is that you must now put you and what you want, first.
She is after all, doing the same thing for herself.
As for friends - this is not uncommon. Just make sure you don't say anything negative about her (no repercussions or accusations)and remain respectful and dignified... and know that it's inevitable....but there are plenty of new friends out there!



*'Sorry to say', because I attempt, through my own discipline, to practise compassion.... but as i've said before, there's no point being a doormat with it. I think you've got a good balance;...but you're probably also functioning on adrenalin, so there's an energy keeping you going....
Make sure you have some good reliable loving and dunderstanding folk to land on, as and when you feel yourself 'shaky' or winding down.....

Yeah, I think she is the one saying the negative things and I'm not stooping to that level.

I have been putting myself first with everyting I'm doing. This is one thing that has been making her angry. She continually asks me what I'm doing and when, so I just say, this is really none of your business. Do I ask you what you are doing? Then she says, "No" and proceeds to tell me and then asks me again what I'm doing and I say, "I have no obligation to tell you that and I'm not going to."

Having compassion and being a doormat are two different things. You can feel the difference and know when someone is taking advantage of your good intentions.

I have a great support system of family and friends who have been unbelievable and I have this board with you ladies that has been a God send and I'm very thankful for this.

Surprise, she just bailed on our plans tonight. I asked her to call me so we can talk. Should I just send her the inventory and agreements?

We had a nice lunch for the most part today.

We talked about the relationship a bit, she still doesn�t now what she wants to do, if she is moving in, if she wants to work on the relationship. So, I told her, the way we are handling this right now is not helping the situation at all and if you want to work on it we need to reopen the lines of communication. Then we kissed on two different occassions, both times she cried. I said to her, do you remember a couple of weeks ago when you said to the counselor, I think Eddie is where I was six weeks ago, she said Yes. I then said, I think I�m not where you were any longer and she was like then you are were I am and I said no, I�m two steps ahead of you at this point. She smiled. I said, something funny about that, she said no, I�m just surprised. I said, look, if you want to work on this then we need to do it, if not then just say the word.

I asked if she got an apartment yet, she said no, I asked what she needs from the house she said clothes and stuff. So, I�m going to send her the e-mail and agreements of separation and household items. We will see what happens with that.

I asked her if she would like to move back in and try living together for a bit and she said I don�t know I�m sure not right now.

I think she feels I�m done at this point. She started talking about going to the counselor earlier on in the relationship and I said, look, I can�t change it and neither can you, so let�s not dwell on it.

I still want to save my marriage, but I think it is over.

You can't do it by yourslef. As much as you want to save you marriage - she has to meet you at least halfway.

I tried and tried with my 1st husband, counseling (2 different ones because he didn't like the first) - but when I walked in early from work one day and caught him on the phone with his mistress, after he promised to break things off with her: I knew things would never change. The day I moved out he begged me to stay - I said, "move to Georgia with me, because you work with her here, and it will never be fixable here." He said he would, he just neede to get the house on the market. When I called to talk to him one day, she answered the phone. I had done all I could.

You've done all you can. It's her turn. There needs to be a show of effort on her part, or else she'll be running you the rest of your life. I never encourage divorce, but sometimes there is no other way. And if one spouse is unwilling to stay in the marriage (as your wife seems to be) then that is one of those cases. Just protect your heart as best you can, and remember that not all women are like this!

The man I am married to now is wonderful. If I had let my first husband turn me off to all romance and marriage, I never would have found the love of my life, and a wonderful father for all of my children - even those that are not biologically his!

Hi, Bella.

I know I can't do it myself and I talked to her about meeting me halfway and she doesn't know. To me, that means no, and she is just trying to hang on to me until she is ready to let go. I just sent her an e-mail listing all property in the house, a possession agreement, and a trial seperation agreement, so I'm waiting to hear back from her about it. This was the first move that I had to make that was negative toward the situation and it makes me sick, but I'm just protecting myself.

Why did I feel compelled to kiss her? Why did she let me kiss her? What is all that about?

sorry to hear about your situation your main problem seem to be a lack of communication from both sides.
in relationships we tend to use -you an awful lot when things go wrong.you said this and you did that. which tends to spiral things out of control. if you do decide to give it another try i would suggest you make it a priority to go on a marriage course and learn how to communicate.
you both need to find the original spark that brought you together in the first place.

why dont you arrange to meet on neutral ground and try to find out what is really going on with her just dont accuse her let her open up to you and try to be nice(i know this might be hard)

what are your feelings do you want to save your marriage?

Hey, Alicat.

Thank you for your advice. It is funny you mention communication. I said to my wife, I don't know how to communicate with her any longer because she is not being honest with me about anything and everything I try doesn't work at this point.

I told her yesterday, we met for lunch, that if she wants to work on the relationship we need to start communicating more. I suggested meeting at least once a week for lunch/dinner to just hang out and talk. She is going to mull that over. I believe she is somewhat interested in working on the relationship or is just afraid to make it final.

I have been very nice to her everytime I am with her and it is driving her crazy. She keeps asking me if I'm sad and I say of course I'm sad, but I have moved on with my feelings, dealt with the hurt and I'm taking care of myself.

I would love to have my relationship back with my wife, but we have a long way to go. I believe she is/was having an emotional affair. Everytime I confronted her about it, she would either start screaming at me, walk out of the room, or just leave the house, which is what happened the last time. I received a phone call from a mutual friend who told me, she was seen with this other man on a particular day having lunch. Our friend was concerned and so was I.

I believe the original spark is still there, we made out twice yesterday during our lunch, so I'm not convinced it is over just yet. I feel bad for her at this point because she was complaining about how her family controlled every part of her life and now she is surrounding herself with them and listening to there every word/suggestion. She is just going to repeat the same cycle and never find her true self.

Well, I just got off the phone with my wife and she finally said she is almost done, but she still isn't completely sure. We are going to meet on Saturday to go over finances and stuff and how we are going to handle the situation.

She was [censored] about the inventory list and I said it was just a precaution at this point and I wanted her to understand the gravity of the situation. I think she now understands. I asked her if she still feels we have something and she said yes, I think we do, but right now I just don't know what to do about it.

So, I'm hopeful, but I'm also realistic about the situation. Maybe we can work this out and maybe we can't. Time will tell.

it sounds to me like she is playing with you! she wants you to be miserable without her! its a good thing you are not showing her how you feel!
at the moment your wife doesnt really want to make any commited decision if i were you i would take control of the situation and make the decision for her!
take some time to think through your situation and decide what you want from it put this in writing add what your expectations are for now and the future
have an official trial separation for three/six months put this in writing too and make arrangements to meet you wife and hand it to her over lunch! see what reacion you get
it will do one of two things

she will decide her marriage is worth fighting for and wil cooperate
or
she will decide to walk

either way you still have your dignity

dont be a door mat

you can also tell her after the trial period you will be willing to consider trying again on your terms!


alicat

ps im on my second marriage!

Hi, Ali.

I sent her a trial separation agreement on Wendesday and she has refused to sign it. There are items on the list we need to discuss, like dating, etc.. and we were supposed to meet tomorrow to talk about it, but all of a sudden she bailed. She was not happy getting the agreement and said, I'm so close to just saying we are done, so I said, "Well, are we?" She said, I'm very close. I said, "I'm sorry to hear you feel that way."

I think she was ready to walk before but just didn't do it and now she knows I understand how she has been feeling because she finally told me about two weeks ago. It is really wild. I did start taking control of the situation. I suggested meeting once a week to have lunch or dinner. I informed her the way she is handling it at this point I'm drifting further apart from her, she didn't like that very much, but it is the truth.

I think she is either afraid to give up on the marriage because her emotional affair partner has refused to leave his girlfriend for her or she has realized when we are together and not talking about our relationship it is like we are married and everything is great between us. It is amazing how the repressed feelings we both have from the relationship are tearing us apart, but when we are just being with each other we are two peas in a pod.

i didnt realise you had to sign for a separation i didnt i just gave him the paper work and told him that was it

i would seriously consider what is best for you!
are there any children involved?

if your wife has moved out does she have keys for where you stay? if so change the locks pack her stuff and give her a time to collect it and go ahead with the sepration any way

is where you stay in both your names ? if so maybe you could move out and rent it
that way you are in control!

stop being so nice
this wont help matters

why should you wait around for your wife to decide what she wants to do when your life is just passing you by!

Actually, the being nice (or at least accomodating) will help tremendously should it ever come down to a court case.

Just as long as you don't let your heart get too carried away - I know, easier said than done. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

My ex felt like he was in control the entire time, and maybe he was - but I am the much happier person today. My children come back and my daughter has made the comment to me that "You and David don't yell at each other like Daddy and Lori do." - Kids tell you things, so I know what's really going on know matter what kind of front they put on for us when we see them. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

My wife moved out of the house and she has keys. We arranged it so she has to call me and let me know when she is coming by and I have just suggested that I be there every time from now on. She didn't like that and implied I thought she was going to clean me out. The house is in both our names and I'm responsible for all the bills starting next month, so it is going to be difficult.

I'm being myself, which is nice, not a door mat, but accomidating to her requests as long as they do not cause me any issues. I'm not waiting for my wife at this point I'm figuring out whether I want to be in the relationship as well.

The time apart has shown me how manipulating she was and how I lost myself. As for signing the seperation agreement, you don't have to do that, but I thought it would be nice.

We don't have any children at this point and I'm legally not allowed the change the locks until all of her belongs are out of the house, which we are negotiating at this point. She is not happy about that either, I believe she is beginning to understand the gravity of the choices she has made and is realizing I'm moving on with or without her.

good for you !! these days its hard to find a decent guy thankfully ive got mine! im sure she will realise one day how foolish she has been to give up a good guy like you!!

Thank you for the kind words. I feel everytime we get together she begins to realize the mistake she is making and that is why she tries to avoid it.

Well, my wife stopped by and picked up some of her personal belongings and hoarded the rest of them into one room in the house.

I was upset she just showed up, but I was glad I was home. She came in numbers with most of her family and luckily I had some friends on their way over to help me with some house repairs. The funny thing was as soon as they showed up she bolted.

The odd thing was she still had her wedding ring on. I asked her, Why?, Is it because your parents are here? She just looked at me and walked away. I found it very interesting to see the other face she was wearing, the I'm the victim and he is the jerk face. Makes me wonder what she is telling them.

Well, the good news is I was able to change the locks because she took out her personal items and I can now not worry about her coming by and cleaning me out. She still refuses to agree to the trial separation agreement or house agreement, so that is a thorn in my side at this point.

So, I planned a vacation yesterday and I can't wait to go and I started decorating the house the way I want it.

Does anyone know the procedure to buying out your spouse for the house?

I guess what I have to tell you is how much do you think that you deserve better than lies about your character. I think that I am attracted to a man who one, will not play this game and respects himself enough to say o.k. its time for me to move away from this situation as this person is not good to me or for me. Then reapproach those people whom she trashed your character not to discuss her but to keep your friendships. Make sure that your not afraid of being alone. I can assure you that being alone is a little frightening but nothing compared to the pain of the deceit, neglect and betrayal youre experiencing now. I wouldn't take her back anytime to soon, she has made a mistake going outside the relationship, thats forgivable, but lying about you, to you betrays a level of the I love you that this person professed. Mistakes happen, and people change but somethings like valuing another human being, especially your mate as a person, are deep seated and basically the core of every relationship. I bet she wouldn't even treat an animal this way, and if she would well then I would have to ask who are you to pick, knowingly such a blatently amoral human to associated with. You sound like a good guy, and there are alot of good women as friends and as mates waiting for you.
Take it slow, find a new place to live and make a little comfortable home, work hard and don't forget to laugh. Then reach out and live and look for someone is real and is a true friend to love.

Hi, Tobasco.

I'm with you on this one. I'm not happy with the level of treatment and the two faces I'm seeing from her. One face, is the loving we are still married face and the other is I'm out of here. She apparently still hasn't made up her mind, but I've pretty much made up mine.

As for being alone, I'm never alone, the Lord is with me at all times. The Lord would not give me something I cannot handle. I've been through harder times in my life than this and I believe that is helping me cope with the situation.

This was her choice and not mine, so I have to deal with the consequences at this point. As a friend to her, I feel bad for her because she doesn't understand the grass isn't greener on the other side yet. Also, by not admitting to herself what she has done in the relationship she is bound to repeat it again in the future.

So, my anniversary is coming up and we are seperated. I don't see this going anywhere anytime soon except down.

What do you do on your anniversary? Do you talk? Do nothing? Send flowers?

Hard one, by the time my anniversary came around my ex had already married his mistress, LOL! (one month between divorce and re-marriage.) <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

If you are ready to file divorce, nothing; if you are not, then send yellow roses - the color signifying friendship. If your marriage is to survive, then the foundation needs to be based on friendship and honesty instead of passion (red roses) at this point in the game. Just say you are thinking about her.

That's my opinion, what say the rest of you?

Honestly?

I sent my husband a card, (he had by now, inspite of his pessimistic outlook, had a casual liaison witrh a lady friend)
and I said something to the effect that I'd moved on, he'd moved on, and that in view of this, life is worth just getting on with. I wished him well in his future, and hoped he'd be happy.

That was it.
He's never received another card from me again, and he's happy with that.
The picture on the front was as nice but neutral as it could be... No hidden perceived or subtle message with undertones.
It was one of these cards with no pre-printed message, and i think it was just of fields and mountains...

this is a hard one i suppose it depends on what you want and feel about the whole situation.
if you are thinking along the lines of divorce i would just keep it simple blank card just a few words.
if you want her to come to her senses then send her a card reminding her of the love you had for one another on your special day and send her some flowers.
remind her of what she is missing and what she walked away from!!

Hi, Ladies.

Thanks for your advice. I packed all of her personal items in the garage last night, so she doesn't have to come back into the house due to her taking items last week she shouldn't have.

I'll send her yellow roses and a card. I found some interesting items while packing her stuff, pictures of her with the man, little notes, stuff like that. Well, lets just say it helped fuel the fire in me to continue packing her belongs while I was exhausted.

I'm done at this point with the relationship and have essentially moved on. I've been reading A Purpose Driven Life and I'm really enjoying it. It has helped me tremendously.

She will realize in a little while what she has walked away from. She will also realize I have spent the last three months collecting evidence of her emotional affair with this man when we get a divorce. She is in for a surprise.

Excellent book! It will definitely give you a reason to get through all of this. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So you see...Even under a 'supervised' visit, she tried to pull the rug from under your feet. I trust you are now going to change the locks....?



Under the circumstances, it would be perfectly understandable if you decided to not do this.....



...I rest my case......!!



GREAT!! - There's a 'Cheaters' episode to look out for!!

Funny you mention that show. I thought about contacting them.

Yeah, I was really upset about the things she was taking and I asked her not to take them and informed her what she was doing was illegal, but she didn't care.

So, all of her stuff in the garage, the locks are changed and I started decorating the house the way I want last night. It is kind of liberating, but sad at the same time.

All these dreams of a house, kids, etc... have been put to the side just when I was starting to enjoy them, but God has a reason for this.

My poor mother is so worried, but when I was a kid (3rd grade) my father passed. Mom had to work all the time and I took care of my two brothers, so I told her this isn't anything I can't handle considering what I've already been through.

Should I file for divorce or wait till she does? I'm thinking about giving it some time at this point, let her make some more mistakes and then file? What did you ladies do?

Forgive me Eddie, but hasn't she done enough, already? You have proof accumulated of her infidelity... That's sufficient grounds, and when you contact a lawyer, be sure to tell him about the stuff she's removed, and that you want compensation for them....

....Or is that Judge Judy....??

Sorry, I'm not laughing at your expense...More giving you an idea of my prime time viewing...


I need to get a life....!!

But seriously...If there aren't enough grounds for you already, just what are you waiting for?