BellaOnline Forums Relationships Marriage Anyone agree ?

My thoughts -
Women fall in love........men fall in lust.
Men do not know what love is.
Is a woman supposed to believe that her man loves her even though he NEVER tells her? His friends seem to be more important than she does....he spends so much time with his buddies, and a lot of time talking to them on the phone. He never buys her gifts (not that it's an important issue, but it would be nice to know he thinks of her once in a while). He buys every toy he wants. He doesn't show any affection, except a quick roll in the sack on occassion and only cares about his satisfaction. They get along like 'friends' most of the time, but of course there's a difference of opinion on some issues.

Any thoughts ?

I always thought in my own naive way that men do fall in love, like the movies and romance books brainwash us into thinking. I only know of a few really good marriages where I think that the men must really be in love with their women, so I am not so sure that most men know what "falling in love" means, or what "commitment" means for that matter.

I was married twice and both times the men seemed to want something else after a period of time. Both times I did not want a divorce. I was IN LOVE. Evidently, both of these men were not. Now I am in a so-called committed relationship with my boyfriend. I am in love with him. Is he in love with me? No. And he has admitted that. He loves me for the good person that I am, and I know he lusted after me in the beginning of our relationship (put a few pounds on thanks to stress and see what happens), but I don't think he will ever be in love with me.

We have been through a lot of life's challenges in the past year that should have brought us much closer, but to this day he still is not in love with me. He has said that he is not sure he ever was in love with anyone but maybe once, to a college sweetheart years ago who broke off the relationship. My boyfriend was married and with that same woman for 13 years, and he says he was not in love with her either, but he cared about her and loved her in his own way.

I think a lot of men are just not capable of the levels of feeling love and giving love the way we women want in our relationships. Lust for them is easy. Loving is an entirely different matter.

I had to move out of my boyfriend's house last night, spent the night in the car which is in my name thank goodness. Just wanted you to know that I will be focusing on relocating back to Florida as the only reason I moved here was to be with him.

Sometimes we as women IGNORE the "red flags" because we want to be with someone really badly.

I got a room for the night at EconoLodge and using a computer they have for guests. God is SO GOOD, they even have a complimentary breakfast - so you know I had some

Anyway, trying not to "stress" as I really have no idea how I am going to pull this off and just grateful to have at least one night of "safety"...

Trying not to cry. He has an alcohol and drug problem and had been in Orlando for a week's vacation with his family. Came back yesterday with 2 of his nephews (ages 4 and about 14) knowing we have no food as it is and the electric bill is way overdue. It is like he spends everything at one time - makes good money! For 3 years I have looking the other way. I do have $187.16 to my name and trusting God with how to move forward. Lance, Inc. wants me back at 8am on Monday and I am hoping the agency will call me with work today or Sunday as I did not work Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks,
Angela

cream pie......As far as the situation you are describing, it sounds like this man definitely is not in love, and may not even care all that much for this woman. He sounds like a very self-centered and selfish man, and this woman needs to move on to a more rewarding relationship, at the very least.

Sounds like they are just friends, if that, and if they live together then they are just room-mates. I certainly wouldn't say they are a committed couple in love with each other. Any love in that relationship is all one-sided, with the woman doing all the caring. She needs to pitch his rear to the curb.

Angela, so sorry to hear that you are having such a difficult time.

I don't know why we women as a whole settle for so much less than we deserve and we stay in relationships that are not healthy for us. We always wish for the best, look for the good in our men, and offer them more chances than we should for them to get themselves together and act like adults. In your situation you had to get out, and I hope that you do stay out for your own health and well being.

Please know that I am thinking of you, and I hope that you will find some opportunity to keep in touch with us here. I care, and I wish you a safe transition to a better situation.

Well, I'm a man - and I can promise you - we DO fall in love. The problem I find, is that people, including myself will fall in love and ignore every sign that the person isn't in love with us. Then you see them with someone else and they're in love.

One of my friends just broke up with her long term b/f and he was devistated. She'd cheated on him over and over, but he kept taking her back because he loved her. I was friends with both of them - and still am. He's still devistated and broke down crying when she told him it was over. She never really loved him though - and when I asked her why? She told me it was because "he's just too nice."

I think a lot of women are drawn to the wrong type of guy. Like going for the jocks instead of the quiet guy.

I think both women and men fall in love and both fall in lust too. Some men are more sexually driven than women, I agree, and that can get them in trouble. So stay away from them. We all see the signs - but we have those blinkers on.

Sorry to hear of the hardships here - they sound very tragic. I hope everything improves for everyone

Men do, as much as women, fall in love. Women do, as much as men, fall in lust. I am reminded of that one song, 'You can't make a heart love somebody'. I think many in the meantime, find something valuable in a relationship they are in. Sometimes though, some unconsciously feel they do not deserve to have a great love. Consciously it will be a different story (things usually don't work out for this reason or that). When they do find that, it is so powerful, it feels 'strange'. But there is no other way to receive it as it deserves to be known.

Steven, I think that the men who 'fall in love' are few and far between. It's interesting to sit back & watch couples at a social event......he gives her "that look"(of love) and it's a given. So nice to see, but rare.

In many marriages, the guy goes his way and lives life the way HE wants to and the gal finally realizes she has to do the same, or sit home and vegetate.

Real communication between married cpls often becomes non-existant. They take each other for granted. It takes both ppl to make it work. One person can try all they want, but if the spouse isn't interested in 'talking' about the situation, then it's a dead end. So life goes on and the years pass by.

Thanks for the reply Cassie67.
I think you 'nailed' it in your above statement.
As well,I believe that most men lose respect for their spouse. RESPECT is the most important ingredient in a marriage..next to being in love.

Actually, TBH - I think you're right. I think I'm a rare breed in the male species. I think that there are men out there though who feel the same though. A lot of the time its cos they've had their heart broken they're like it. It's like men only give one chance sometimes where as women will generally give more.

And I also think that ppl are usually attracted to the wrong type of person because they're seen as a challenge. But if we don't believe in finding that special person, it's going to be quite a sad world. Lonliness is an epidemic. I think search through enough of the rough and you'll find a diamond. Maybe that's naive - but I feel like that.

Angela, it must have been awful to leave the dogs - ad I can understand completley staying in a negative place for an animal. You did a really strong thing though and the thing that was best for you. Hopefully the dogs will be fine without you - and perhaps when you get back on your feet you can get in contact with your ex's son to make sure. You should be thinking of yourself ATM and try to put them out of your mind. Hope luck deals you some good hands

Steven,
It could be that men have difficulty expressing their love, that is, after the lust part has worn off. I don't think there are many men who feel the same about their spouse after being together for a long time. Men don't seem to need the affection and special bonding that women do throughout life.
It could be possible that men get love and lust confused.
I can only think of two cpls that act like they are in "love" with each other, after many yrs. together. It's so nice to see the respect they have for one another.

With both husbands I had, they did not put forth enough effort to make things work out for the marriage. I was always willing to communicate, compromise, find other alternatives, seek counseling, and TRY TRY TRY anything that might help make things better. These two guys wanted things their way, and if I could not do things exactly the way they wanted it, the marriage was over. Granted, I am not perfect, but I can say that I did not cheat on any of my husbands when life became difficult. I supported my men with all that I had. I would have thought that this would be a thing to be cherished by a man, but it just isn't. The more you do for them, the less they appreciate you.

I was married for 2 yrs the first time (3 yrs total together), and 16 years the second time (19 years total together). My view of marriage is that it should be a permanent thing. You find the most suitable partner you can and work on things together, but these two men found it easier to bail out instead of working on the relationship and the commitment they had made. At least in the beginning of these relationships I had thought that these men were in love with me. I was not intimate with them too soon, and we developed a good friendship and loving relationship. So where did the love on their part go???

I do a lot for my boyfriend, who's health is a tentative thing. I know he loves me and he appreciates me, but if I said I wanted to leave him I don't think he'd put up too much fuss. He is very casual minded about sex and relationships, and like I have said in earlier posts, I know that he is not "in love" with me. It is a strange thing to me, and almost a bitter thing to swallow. If he wasn't so sweet and caring and I didn't love him so much I would leave him.

Steven, thanks for joining in with your view. It is nice to get a male point of view here. I don't think a lot of guys are like you in their way of thinking about love and being in love. A lot of guys have a hard time expressing themselves as it is. I thought I had found expressive men each time and I figured we could get through anything together with love and communication. I was wrong, evidently. Seems to me that when a guy wants to check out he will just stop tuning in to the relationship and go off down his own road. At least that is my experience.

That's a good way to put it ....they " tune out of the relationship", and become more interested in spending time with their friends/hobbies, etc. If the spouse isn't interested in either/or, that's too bad....they go do whatever they please, anyhow.
I admire cpls who have the same interest and the same friends.

My thoughts: It's dangerous to make blanket generalizations for an entire gender population. Humans have too many variations and individual personalities to say that men fall in lust and women fall in love. I've known many couples where the situation was in reverse! The man truly loved the woman but for the woman the attraction was purely physical.

Men are absolutely capable of falling in love and maintaining a loving, committed relationship. I know of many, including those in 50+ yearlong marriages!

Have hope. Good men are out there.

I totally agree with Steven. I think there are a some/ too many women out there who fall for the wrong guy over and over again and they don't even realize they have a pattern, while they ignore the nice men out there thinking they are "boring" "too nice" or "not manly enough". I know I was a little like that in my teenage/young adult years, but I grew out of it, and I only committed when I found a man ready to commit too. I am certain that my husband loves me as much as I love him. And I love him because he puts in the relationship as much as I do and because being with him is so much better than being without him. I love myself myself enough not to start/ stay in a relationship with some one who cares more for friends and hobbies than for our life together.

I also agree with Lori, I dislike generalizations, I don't like it when someone says "we women are..." they don't know me at all they shouldn't do that. I have fallen in lust in the past too, lol.

I hope I did not offend anyone with any of my posts. I know there are variations in all things with individual men and women. I don't mean to make generalizations, but only speak for myself, people I personally know, and from information I have received from various books and media on how women and men feel. It is just my take on things, nothing more. I am certainly no expert and I don't assume to know everyone's mind.

As for what Steven said about falling for the wrong men, I personally never did fall for the "bad guy" or the "wild guy". I was always attracted to average looking guys with a bit of height and build, but not the body builder type. I developed friendships with both of my husbands first before becoming intimate with them. They were indeed nice guys, but not Elvis Presley in the looks department. I wanted a bit more substance in my relationships.

My second husband I truly considered my soulmate, and we spent 19 years together with very good communication and affection. My head still spins that he decided to check out of our relationship. I can honestly say that he truly was in love with me years ago when we got together. When I did not give him exactly what he wanted and how he wanted it, he finally decided to leave with resentment and disrespect for me. Somewhere along the line he did not want to accept me for who I am.

As much as I found that some things were lacking in various areas of our relationship, I was very accepting of his flaws because as a whole he was a good guy. I think what we had as a couple turned out not to be enough for him. I think through the years relationships do mellow, the electricity does wear off, and what you have left is the genuine caring and affection between you. We had that, and I think that is what keeps those 50 year marriages going. It is the meat of the relationship. For some reason my husband thought that this solid foundation and history was not enough for him.

My current boyfriend is someone I never would have looked at twice if we passed each other on the street. I met him under unusual circumstances and completely by chance. He is not what I would have considered my type. He is not tall at all, of slight build with hardly a voice (thanks to thyroid cancer, surgery, and radiation when he was a child), a very thin neck and small shoulders (thanks again to illness), and his view on sex and relationships is very casual. Not my type.....

During the process of my divorce I met my boyfriend. We became friends only, with the knowledge that my intention was to move away to go live with family across the country. What I found with my boyfriend was that even though he was not my physical type, he was indeed a very nice person....funny, thoughtful, considerate, respectful, kind, and giving. I think in this case I did fall in lust with him before love, because he is a very sensual person, but the love certainly came soon after for me as we spent more time together. A year later he is still consistently the same sweet man. I can't resist him even though his views on some things are too light for me. He does however have a positive and upbeat view of life, which rubs off on me and helps me mentally and emotionally look at things with a healthier attitude.

We just take life one day at a time together, and that is enough. I am happy I did take a chance with him, a guy I would have normally overlooked. I have been taught a lesson on how not to judge a book by its cover. This relationship certainly started out differently than the relationships that led to my marriages.

Lori, I think many of us know couples who have been happy for 50 years or thereabouts. These wonderful couples come from an era when marriage was more respected and couples just worked through every difficulty together. There just were no other options or ways of thinking. They just stayed together. Getting through life's challenges with that sense of purpose has made these couples as close as they are. It sure is amazing to see their sense of commitment to each other. We could learn a lot of life's lessons from these wonderful couples.

It seems that commitment and marriage does not have the same value today for many people. Divorce and separation come too easily. It is a little sad to me.

I agree that Divorce these days is just too easy, people step into marraige knowing fully well it actually means very little these days.

The men you talk about may well have been in love with you. Many ppl will be in love but not want to fight for it, or they have difficulties other problems etc.

When I said about going for the wrong guy - I didn't mean looks - I meant, you know, you just KNOW that this person is bad for you. The most beautiful looking people can be brilliant partners, and obviously "plain" people can be terrible ones vice versa.

It seems a shame that so many women here have been burnt or had bad relationships. It's actually the nature of relationships I think - there's always one that loves more. If you really want to play it safe, make sure you're the one that loves less. Human beings want nothing more than what they cannot have in my experience LOL.

Even though, I for example have fallen head over heels before. I haven't expressed it. I've been cold - I've been distracted, all because I don't want to get hurt, and these days dating feels like a game - it does to me at least. Nothing is personal anymore - it's all e-mails and texts (SMS) - there's not enough bonding a lot of the time, so you feel ill at ease at times (or I do.) I wish people would just be straight forward and say what they think. I'd have more respect for someone who said 'I just want to sleep with you' than some nasty liar that pretends they like you just to get women into bed.

I agree it's wrong to generalise - I'm guessing we're going on personal experiences though - so it's difficult. I do agree that men fall in love though. I've seen far too many men in love to not know it, and it surpasses lust. Lust is more like winning a prize to men. It's done, move on. They won't stick around unless they're in love - wether it's three months or 9 months from what I've seen anyway. Unless they're a determined little fibber LOL.

The human being always wants what it does not need and needs what it does not want.

And I agree with what you say Steven.

Men and women get burnt and have bad relationships, it is not always the woman who is left hurt and crying, it happens to men too! I think women are sometimes way too hard on men and expect far too much. I know I sometimes come across as a man hater! But most of the time I am on their side. I have just come across my fair share of tossers! Two ex husbands is two too many!

YIKES! Please don't hold back! When you love, love completely! Sure, it's a risk in that you may not get back what you give, but that isn't what love is about. It isn't like currency exchanged. Life is a risk, and there will be opportunities to experience hurt, pain and sorrow. You can't and shouldn't avoid them because there are great lessons to be learned from each. No one likes to feel hurt or rejected but if you approach it correctly, you will emerge stronger and wiser each time. And I said stronger and wiser, not more jaded or cynical.

There is beauty and magic in loving completely. You transform everything, including yourself. Love, love, love with all of you. And if someone should not value that, it is his loss and his issue with not being able to accept love. Don't take it personally. Consider it a beautiful thing to have experienced some of life with him (including the good, bad and the ugly) and move onto more great adventures.

You are capable of loving someone completely and then letting go. You have infinite love within you and lots more to offer others.

Steven....I know it sounded like I was talking about just looks when being attracted to a guy, but I really meant the entire package....whether or not a guy is "good" for me based on who he is inside. I am far from a shallow person and I am very accepting of peoples flaws as long as these people are respectful and considerate.

Funny you said that you should be the person who loves less. I really put off my second husband when we first met. I was very casual and I made him chase me. You are right in that people want what they cannot have. I kept my feelings cool and did not allow myself to fall for him too quickly. He was head over heels and he thought I was perfect.

I guess after 19 years he realized I was not perfect, but then again neither was he. I put up with a lot of things that I probably should not have through the years.....porn addiction, frivilous spending, infidelity more than once. He also had mental and physical health issues, and several job losses. He went to school for 8 years while he worked full time, so I hardly had any quality time with him. We could not go on vacations together for those 8 years because he was busy with his studies. I sacrificed a lot of my life to keep him going because he wanted a better life for both of us, so I thought. I supported him the best I could because I thought we were perfect for each other. In the end he did not see that.

Lori.....when I fall in love, I do love with my entire heart. I give it all and give my all, but it seems that I am the one who gets hurt when I do this. It is the risk I take, granted, but I do not believe at least in my case that a person has endless amounts of love and can continue to love deeply after being burned. Granted, I can love my friends and family and I will always be kind to my fellow human beings. But to be "in love" for me and then to lose the relationship, especially if I see solutions and avenues that can be taken to save it but the other person does not want it, it does take everything out of me.

I have less of myself to give my boyfriend because I am burned out emotionally after two failed marriages. I know in my heart that if he and I break up then I will be done with relationships with the opposite sex for a very long time. I just won't have anything left to give a man, and I wouldn't want to give like that anymore just to get burned. As an adult I have tried the "in love" thing three times for a span of over 24 years, and I just can't give of myself like that anymore. There is just nothing left inside me when I have already given it all. Maybe it is because I do all the work in the relationship.

It may sound tragic, but my own mother feels the same about men after two failed marriages of her own. A friend of mine in her 50's is on her second marriage of over 20 years and she is unhappy. She has no interest in trying out other relationships with men. She is like me in that she gives it her all in her relationship with the man she loves. After a while when you realize that giving it all does not get you the same love in return, you just give up from the sheer fatigue of it all.

I wish it could be different. I have always been idealistic and hoped for the long lasting love that we all deserve when we find that special someone to be with. But people change and picking good partners is not enough. You can love with everything you have, but if the other person does not want to put in the work necessary to keep the relationship going it just won't work.

I think some people believe that relationships should be easy and that it will always be a walk in the park when you love someone. That is just not realistic. They don't realize the work involved, how it is not ok to be selfish in a relationship, and that everyone has flaws. I think I do love unconditionally when I am in love, but I have not found a partner who can do the same, even though I am in a good relationship now.

I know that my thoughts sound idealistic, but if people only knew the truth of my marriage, they would see that it is not ideal, not perfect, but pretty wonderful. It has been work. A lot of work. A lot of self-work. And I have grown immensely because of it.

Maybe that is the problem. People still shoot for ideal when "ideal" is different for everyone.

To make matters even harder, we live in a disposable society where instant gratification is demanded or the goal is abandoned. And that includes relationships. I would have abandoned my marriage many times over if not for my husband's stubborn refusal to hang on. And I am so thankful that he did because I worked through my immaturity and other issues to see that I am capable of loving more than I ever knew possible. Most people don't hang in there until they reach that stage.

I suppose there is a "law of diminishing returns" when it comes to giving your all and getting burned.

I got burned once and now I am so grateful that the universe sent him packing now that I see what my life would have been like with him.

With everything I've been through, I guess I've learned to accept the twists and turns in life because sometimes God, the universe, divine providence, just has better things in store for you. More than our own limited imaginations. So I don't always think of being burned so much as sometimes, we just don't choose well and life steers us down new and better paths...

Hi Lori, my second marriage was definitely better than the first one. I think I chose well at the time when I decided to spend my life with my second husband. Both of us had similar values and interests, and there was genuine caring, respect, and affection. We hardly ever fought and we never went to bed upset with each other. Getting through life's challenges was hard, but we tried to keep a sense of humor. I thought our relationship was pretty great in comparison to the others I'd see around us, but it was indeed a lot of work. Well worth it though, I thought, and I was willing until the end to work things out.

I think you are right in that instant gratification is demanded or the goal is abandoned. You don't know how many years I hung on to the "it will get better in time" attitude. I was willing to stick it out and hang in there until my husband made better money with a decent job as a result of his 8 yrs of higher education. I thought life would get a little easier for us. Funny, he reaps the rewards now with another woman, and I am at poverty level without a job. So much for my support all of those years.....

I really am not cynical, just a person who has experienced a lot of hard times and harsh realities. And so have a lot of other people, I know. I just know myself, and that I am tapped out. I have pictured myself many times being alone in my own place with my two dogs, and hopefully my two horses somewhere nearby. I'm hanging on to my animals by the skin of my teeth these days, but they are all I have left that's truly mine and mine alone, and they give me unconditional love. I feel very peaceful around my animals.

I know life brings us many twists and turns. I have faith that God will get me through the tough times, though. He did send my boyfriend to me at a time when I really needed him the most, this I have no doubt, and this new man in my life is a real gem. I will enjoy him for as long as I have him.

Lori, you have so beautifully said what I have at times tried to tell people who needed to know that loving fully is so beautiful. Risking can often bring pain and sorrow, but when one loves fully they give every part of themselves and what returns can be the most beautiful gift of all. There is someone out there who so needs what one has to give.

Lori - I actually agree with you, but as you say - you're in a happy relationship. Your thoughts and mood will be more happy and you'll think differently to Cassie. Luckily, I still feel the same - that you should put yourself out there - I'm just trying to see it from these womens points of view as they're obviously in a lot of pain.

Cassie - one thing I would say is you're never going to get perfect. You're never going to get the love you feel you deserve from this man. Have you told him you'd like him to be more loving toward you? You probably have, but so many ppl don't say what they want - and most of the time that's the best way to get it.

One thing I will bring up cos I've seen it mentioned a few times is guys watching porn. This might offend some ppl, it may not - but really who cares? LOL. It's natural that men get turned on more by visual things. You could watch it with him. Or just let him bog off in the other room and get on with it. I understand that you think, but I'm here, aren't I enough? But maybe he has fantasies he doesn't want to put you in - maybe there for his mind only and not for his g/f or wife who he loves. I honestly see no harm in it. If he's in there everyday - as long as I was getting what I needed I really would find it quite funny. Though obviously, I don't know everyone's situations here.

Funnily enough - I'm always (or usually) the one who loves more. I'm just scared to show it, because I know that when someone see's this - they take you for granted usually. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. That's why I can understand what Cassie said. It would be great if ppl could be honest with each other - but sometimes too much honesty can hurt and ppl find it difficult to express certain feelings. I think for a lot of the time if someone is with you, they either love you or care very deeply for you. Otherwise they'd be gone. It's not so much about settling, but about being realistic.

The media throws these ridiculous images of love and infatuation in our faces and life just isn't like a rom com. Not at all. It's tough and difficult and we spend a lot of it fighting for ourselves to be happy. If you've found happiness that's great, but there's a lot of us who're swimming against the tide still trying to grab ahold of it

And that's my Dear Steven for today LOL. Probably useless LOL

You're so right, dear Steven! I don't mean to sound all Pollyanna-ish when people are in pain. How annoying and hurtful that is. I'm very sorry.

Just so you know, I still do experience pain and hurt even in this "happy" relationship.

Steven.....first off, I'd like to thank you for continuing to post on this forum. I have enjoyed your point of view and your candor. I hope you will continue to visit here and post again.

I know I won't have a perfect situation with my current boyfriend. None of my relationships as good as they were at times were perfect, and I don't think "perfect" even exists. But it can be a pretty darn good relationship, which I do think I currently have with my boyfriend. I believe I love unconditionally and I always try to accept the flaws or differences of my partner. I choose to focus on the positive aspects of my partner and the relationship rather than the negative. I do believe that is one reason my marriage lasted so long. I may have been "too" accepting at times, but I always focused on the positive.

My boyfriend knows I am an intense person. He says he feels badly that he can't love me the same way. He just can't force feelings. Nobody can. But this man is a sweetheart, loving and affectionate in his own way, very kind and giving, funny and just fun to be around, and he is a very considerate intimate partner. He truly is a one of a kind guy. I have never met another guy like him. He just seems so different.

As much as I have been burned by my two husbands, I would not refuse an offer of marriage from my boyfriend if ever it would come. I love him that much and view him as a very special and all around "good" guy. He does not have a mean bone in his body. I am drawn to his aura because I can just feel the gentleness within him.

He has told me that he does not want to marry again. His casual way I believe is due to his health issues which he has had since he was a baby. At age 48 he has already had cancer, two open heart surgeries, the most recent was last fall which I was there for. He had a heart attack. He had a ton of complications and was hospitalized for 6 1/2 weeks. He is doing better now but he is still having problems. I know he thinks he could die at any time.

I think living one day at a time is what he can mentally manage, and he does so with the best possible attitude. Marriage and a possible divorce again would be too much for him to handle, I think. The fact that I am just his girlfriend is easier for him to handle. If we break up there would not be as much at stake emotionally and otherwise. I do believe that marriage is the ultimate form of commitment from your partner, but I probably will never see that from this man. That is disappointing, but one never knows what the future brings. He could change his mind or not. I am happy to be with him anyway.

So even though I know there will be no "perfect", this man treats me very well and that is what really matters. I do feel special in his eyes. I have had to come to the realization that my boyfriend loves me the way he can and the way he is able to. I appreciate him very much and accept him the way he is. I know he tries to make me happy. The fact that I live with him at all tells me he cares deeply. He is not one to live with just any woman. He actually likes living alone. So to be invited to share his life in his home with him is very special.

Sure I was burned very badly last year when I lost my husband and my marriage, but that is when my boyfriend showed up in my life. As much as it was probably a rebound situation, I did see a lot of good in my boyfriend so I figured I'd give love a try once again. If any red flags would have come up I would have been gone, but we have known each other for a year and 4 months and we are still having fun and loving each other. I did take a chance even though I was hurting so much, and it has paid off for me.

The fact that I would not want to do this again for a very long time if we broke up is because I would want to be alone to reset myself. I have been with a man since I was 22 yrs old, and I won't mind being alone. I don't have to be validated by a man, although being loved is wonderful. I just know that I would be very emotionally drained if he and I broke up, and I would not be able to bounce back from it very soon, if at all. It does hurt too much when you give all you have in a relationship. In this case with my boyfriend I am trying to find a little more balance where I take care of myself as well as him. I can't give like I used to where I gave to the degree of neglecting myself.

As for porn, I agree with Steven. It really is no big deal. Sometimes I will watch, but a lot of the time I won't because it does seem to be the same thing all the time....that is boring to me. But if my boyfriend gets a charge out of it I don't mind. It is not abused to where all he does is view porn and he has no time for me. So no harm is done as far as I am concerned.

Lori....just so you know, you did not offend me at all with any of your posts. I have enjoyed reading them. Thanks for responding in regards to my personal situation.

Sorry my posts often run so long....

Thanks, Cassie. I'm glad I didn't upset you. And no worries about your "long" posts. I'm usually a long poster. How else can you say all you need to say?

Anyway, I don't mean for my "happy" little posts to be like Band-Aids on a gaping wound. My intention was to provide hope when I read hopeless posts.

It's absolutely important to vent and to feel sad feelings, but it's equally important to be able to see the hope and move toward it or one can spiral into a pit of never-ending despair. Been there, done that.

Just trying to toss out a rope to a friend because we all need one from time-to-time.

(BTW, your boyfriend sounds as though he does have his own reasons for not making permanent relationship commitments and it doesn't have anything to do with not loving you enough. You feel special in his eyes and that is tremendous.)

Hi Ladies,

At first I wasn't sure if I should post, because after all, this is a place primarily for women to converse about female problems - but I thought maybe a mans opinion may help here - so I hope it has. Or we could just think of each other as people or individuals (without that sounding too corny LOL)

Lori - I agree, I don't think you're offending anyone - just trying to see the best, and that's a really strong and at times difficult thing to do. I admire your outlook a lot

Cassie, I'm so glad that I could help in any way. It means a lot for you to say that. I can see that your boyfriend sounds like a lovely man - he sounds in love with you very much, and as if he's protecting you by not marrying you. Perhaps one day, he won't be able to resist - who knows? I'm very sorry to hear of his health problems - this sounds like the root of the cause of why he doesn't want to put that commitment on your shoulders because he's probably worried, as you say. They do say creaking gates last longer so hopefully, his health will be fine from now on. He sounds like he has a great outlook considering his poor luck, and you sound very much in love with him too.

It must be difficult sometimes when you want certain things from him, or you don't understand why he behaves a certain way - but to me personally, the signs point strongly that he loves you a lot you may not always understand each other, but as long as you're aware of that, then that's brilliant. Plus, how boring would life be, and your relationship be, if everything went exactly how you both wanted LOL... some conflict is good - it keeps things fresh and helps build your love and relationship.

You've been through tough times with men, so you're bound to be wary and I don't blame you, but you should try and enjoy your time together as much as you can - otherwise you may regret it someday. Though you sound lke you're actually quite happy, just a bit confused at times? I hope you are happy

Don't worry about long posts, like Lori says - you have to explain yourself - and I think I'm a long talker myself LOL

One of my closest friends recently broke up with her boyfriend because he refused to marry her, oddly enough that we discussed this. So, after four years, he said he couldn't and he left. Now my dear friend is heartbroken - I've never seen her so hurt, and she laughs at times and says the funny thing is - she didn't really care that much about marriage, but she wanted to know that he wanted to marry her. Now, because of all her pushing, she's pushed him away. It's so awful to see her so depressed, and also to see her blaming herself. She just wishes she'd excepted him now. Though, they wanted seperate things regarding family, so I don't think they were "meant to be" - but it's odd how these feelings can spoil something good.

Yeah porn can be very boring LOL - that's why I say let him/men get on with it. Or women, I've known a few women that love porn LOL. I don't think it reflects on a relationship - at least you know he has a healthy sex drive, and as long as he's there for you - that's what's important.

I agree with Lori - he seems to love and think a lot of you

Talk to you soon Steve

I resent the stereotype that All men just think of lust not love.
While this is true for a large percentage of men, is not true of all men. It is not true of me. I would love a good romance or a chance to be romantic. Please don't stereotype me because I am male as being like so many other men. I am so different and I like being who I am.

Thank you for posting here, guys. I really, really encourage men to post here because we, women, can benefit from your honest thoughts and feelings. And you men should feel safe being able to post here anonymously.

There are things that men think that women would never imagine. For example, in another marriage forum, a long-time husband posted that he has such inner resentment towards his wife that he withholds sex (who'd have thunk that a man would ever do that?!?) He does not want to divorce so many reasons, mainly the family and finances, but his anger has turned into contempt but she would never know because he quietly endures.

Why doesn't he say anything? Because he's learned through the years that she won't give an inch.

My point in bringing this up is that if husbands and wives can share honestly and safely here, we can learn from each other. Without judgment or criticism.

So thank you all for coming forward to share. Thank you, Craig, for letting us know that you resent being stereotyped. It's a mistake we shouldn't make in the future.

Cassie, I love your posts as well as everyone that's been digging into the hard center of experiences. This is a brave group and I just love that!

Cream pie started a very interesting topic, one that seems to have just multitudes of different experiences and levels of love within those experiences.

I kind of wonder if all interactions aren't maybe on some level a form of love? Love by denfinition, is there really just one?

If it's a mutual exchange and there's sharing of those exchanges, I wonder if people aren't maybe channels we come across with the receiving and giving flowing as long as there is a perpetual movement of growth?

I think also there is a purity that comes to people who have been close to death. Like your boyfriend, I think when you are faced with the inevitable a certain simplicity transpires. They seem to really get the stuff that's important and aren't all that interested in the frivolousness of other things. They have no desire to cause external pain and really well, from being there, haven't the energy to be selfish.

Though they may not always be the picture of what we consider health, they often are vessels that bring quite a good deal of healing

Craig.....I am sorry if you were offended here. There should be more guys out there like you and Steven who are willing to take a chance on love and be romantic. It seems to me that guys like you are hard to find, unfortunately, but I commend you both for your honesty and open hearts.

Steven.....Thanks for your support. It means a lot to me to have your feedback. In my case I have been hurt very badly (the end of my marriage to my second husband was worse for me to handle than my father's death), so I may be a little jaded in my thinking about men. I know I am not the only woman to ever go through such pain, but for me personally it has left me with a hole in my heart that will never be healed completely again. Some of what is the worst to bear is the loss of the little things in the relationship that I will never do again, see again, hear again. Those little things in a relationship are so important, and after almost 20 years these things are a part of your life. How to change and try to forget these things is so difficult. I find myself saying things to my boyfriend that were only meant for my husband's ears, and it brings me pain to have this unconsciously happen. I don't want these little things to be a part of my new relationship, but they are still in the forefront of my mind.

I am happy with my boyfriend for the most part and I know he cares. I agree with you and Elleise in that someone with the burden healthwise that he has carried all of his life can affect the types of commitments he makes now. I have found him to be a vessel of comfort though, and it came at a time last year when I was at my darkest hour.

Elleise.....I like the insight of your post. Thanks for your feedback. It is true that my boyfriend likes simplicity and he has no intention of hurting people. He is far from selfish.

Lori.....As always it is great to hear from you. You are great!

On the flipside of this, I posted some negative things this morning about my boyfriend in the Relationships-Relationships section, on the "Boyfriend still in touch with past lovers" thread. I started that thread recently, and I posted an update there this morning because it was more appropriate to post there because of the content than on this thread.

If you have a chance to read that thread please do, as it rounds out my story with my boyfriend. Any feedback is appreciated, especially from the guys who have chosen to comment here.

"Perfect" just does not happen in relationships.......

I read a lot of what's been said in the relationships section Cassie. I can see your point of view, I would probably feel the same in my heart, but my mind would be saying ' no - stop, trust him.' You sort of have to. I see how when other ppl have said that the relationship isn't right for you, you've jumped right to your b/f's defense - so that says a lot I really don't think he would cheat on you. He just seems to love these women as friends. I understand how you feel - but do you want to push him away? I haven't read your last post, but I think you should try and trust him. Because of his health issues in the past he may think - life's too short to not be friends and loving to ppl who he was once there for. As long as you're still important - very important to him. Yeah, perfect just doesn't happen in relationships - or it rarely does. You two seem to have a few issues, such as the saying 'I love you' one. The thing I notice is how you defend your relationship though, so you must love him, and you don't like him being portrayed in a negative light - so you mut feel he's a good guy. Maybe, ask yourself seriously, would you rather be with him as things are and keep things the same? Or give him up for these issues? You'll know the answer in your heart.

After your husbund it must be difficult to go with the flow, but it sounds like that's what your b/f wants to do with life. It must be difficult for you - my mother still hasn't got over my father leaving her - and that was over 30 years ago. She still cries for him. When you love someone, I think you always love them. When I think of my ex's, even ones which have ended badly - I still love them.

On a seperate note, there seems to be an idea that all men are really highly sexed in the West, and that women aren't LOL. I know in general, men are more highly sexed, but I think women can be just the same. I think we learn this a lot from what we're shown in the media - rom-coms etc. The media does this a lot - in sitcoms you'll see the woman shown to be witholding sex as a punishment. It's just another gender stereotype really. Younger guys are obviously highly sexed - but I've known of some older men who would rather just be loving - which one would associate more with the stereotype of a woman. The problem is the media judge women who are sexual - they're either slutty tarts or they're a villain in some way. I can't think of a woman who is sexual in a film who isn't one of these stereotypes. It's as if women aren't allowed to be able to enjoy sex in the West.

But it's ridiculous really, otherwise we wouldn't still have a human race LOL. Women can be just as lusty as men, more so sometimes. Unless I'm hanging out with strange women LOL - all my female friends are lusty, apart from one who isn't interested - but neither is her husbund, so they match LOL. They're in their twenties and they have seperate bedrooms and had sex once this year just so she could get pregnant, and she was really pleased that they'd got it "on the first attempt" LOL. This is what she told me.

I think the variety of traits that men and women have is interesting and not assigned to just one sex or the other. My husband is more nurturing than I am. We complement each other. I am more of the disciplinarian, although that doesn't mean just punishment.

Sometimes I feel that the myth that women are loving and men are lusting is so that men can feel comfortable leaving their wives at home alone. If she's not lusty, she won't step outside of the marriage, right? Just a random thought!

In regards to my two marriages I fell in love before going to bed ever came into play, especially my second marriage where we were friends before I ever felt deeper feelings for him. With my boyfriend, I think I actually fell into lust first and then shortly afterwards I fell in love with him. As we spent more time together I saw there was a lot more I admired about him than just the electricity he created.

Things don't look good between us right now, unfortunately. As appropriate I will be commenting on our relationship in the Relationships section of this forum.

Thanks again for commenting, Steven.

Cassie, do you have the link to your thread in the relationships forum? Maybe we could all have a look and try and offer you some helpful advice

I'm sorry to hear things aren't going well.

This thread we are on here is in the Marriage section in Relationships. There is another section in Relationships called Relationships....go there and my thread is titled, "Boyfriend still in touch with past lovers".

Thank you!

If this is the only problem ... then i think .. men's are not wrong..

But if its for the rest of the article... then hard to believe and trust your guy!!!

I am not married... soo can't comment much about this!!

A man can show his love in many ways. He doesn't have to tell her, although if she needs that, she might need to tell her guy how important it is to her. Be specific; tell him what it is that you need to hear. Use the words.

Ways love can be shown in small ways, too;
Doing the dishes
Washing loads of clothes
Tucking her into bed at night
Shopping for both of them
Mowing the lawn
Watching a favorite show with her, even though he has little interest in it.
Making her lunch

The accumulation of caring acts over the life of the relationship can show love, even if the words are seldom spoken, flowers are non-existant, and the greeting cards stay at the store.

I would honestly rather have the warmth and caring of the little things and a spouse who is faithful, than all of the candy, flowers, cards and loving words, from an unfaithful husband.

I agree. The man in my life may not say he loves me all the time, but he shows me he loves me and cares for me on a daily basis with his acts of kindness, consideration, and respect. Those little things he does is his way of showing me his true feelings and true self, and that means everything to me.

[quote=Connie - ADD/Sandwiches]A man can show his love in many ways. He doesn't have to tell her, although if she needs that, she might need to tell her guy how important it is to her. Be specific; tell him what it is that you need to hear. Use the words.[/quote] This reminds me so much of a book called "The 5 Love Languages" In it the author talks about how everyone speaks a certain love "language". The 5 are Words of Affirmation Quality Time Receiving Gifts Acts of Service and Physical Touch. If one spouse's langauge is "Words of Affirmation" - then it is very important for them to hear "I love you". However the other spouse's language might be "Acts of Service" and that spouse is busy doing things for the other; cleaning house, doing the dishes, etc. It doesn't mean that either spouse loves "more" or "better" - it is just that they need to recognize what their own language is and recognize their spouses', too.

Thanks Chelle! I'm glad that my sweetie and I speak the same language.

The book sounds interesting; I've never read it.

Wonderful book!

100% accurate. Communication comes in all forms.

I think back to when trade was means and communication. It's human nature.

With relationships I think it's pretty much the same thing