BellaOnline Forums Relationships Marriage Anyone agree ?

The human being always wants what it does not need and needs what it does not want.

And I agree with what you say Steven.

Men and women get burnt and have bad relationships, it is not always the woman who is left hurt and crying, it happens to men too! I think women are sometimes way too hard on men and expect far too much. I know I sometimes come across as a man hater! But most of the time I am on their side. I have just come across my fair share of tossers! Two ex husbands is two too many!

YIKES! Please don't hold back! When you love, love completely! Sure, it's a risk in that you may not get back what you give, but that isn't what love is about. It isn't like currency exchanged. Life is a risk, and there will be opportunities to experience hurt, pain and sorrow. You can't and shouldn't avoid them because there are great lessons to be learned from each. No one likes to feel hurt or rejected but if you approach it correctly, you will emerge stronger and wiser each time. And I said stronger and wiser, not more jaded or cynical.

There is beauty and magic in loving completely. You transform everything, including yourself. Love, love, love with all of you. And if someone should not value that, it is his loss and his issue with not being able to accept love. Don't take it personally. Consider it a beautiful thing to have experienced some of life with him (including the good, bad and the ugly) and move onto more great adventures.

You are capable of loving someone completely and then letting go. You have infinite love within you and lots more to offer others.

Steven....I know it sounded like I was talking about just looks when being attracted to a guy, but I really meant the entire package....whether or not a guy is "good" for me based on who he is inside. I am far from a shallow person and I am very accepting of peoples flaws as long as these people are respectful and considerate.

Funny you said that you should be the person who loves less. I really put off my second husband when we first met. I was very casual and I made him chase me. You are right in that people want what they cannot have. I kept my feelings cool and did not allow myself to fall for him too quickly. He was head over heels and he thought I was perfect.

I guess after 19 years he realized I was not perfect, but then again neither was he. I put up with a lot of things that I probably should not have through the years.....porn addiction, frivilous spending, infidelity more than once. He also had mental and physical health issues, and several job losses. He went to school for 8 years while he worked full time, so I hardly had any quality time with him. We could not go on vacations together for those 8 years because he was busy with his studies. I sacrificed a lot of my life to keep him going because he wanted a better life for both of us, so I thought. I supported him the best I could because I thought we were perfect for each other. In the end he did not see that.

Lori.....when I fall in love, I do love with my entire heart. I give it all and give my all, but it seems that I am the one who gets hurt when I do this. It is the risk I take, granted, but I do not believe at least in my case that a person has endless amounts of love and can continue to love deeply after being burned. Granted, I can love my friends and family and I will always be kind to my fellow human beings. But to be "in love" for me and then to lose the relationship, especially if I see solutions and avenues that can be taken to save it but the other person does not want it, it does take everything out of me.

I have less of myself to give my boyfriend because I am burned out emotionally after two failed marriages. I know in my heart that if he and I break up then I will be done with relationships with the opposite sex for a very long time. I just won't have anything left to give a man, and I wouldn't want to give like that anymore just to get burned. As an adult I have tried the "in love" thing three times for a span of over 24 years, and I just can't give of myself like that anymore. There is just nothing left inside me when I have already given it all. Maybe it is because I do all the work in the relationship.

It may sound tragic, but my own mother feels the same about men after two failed marriages of her own. A friend of mine in her 50's is on her second marriage of over 20 years and she is unhappy. She has no interest in trying out other relationships with men. She is like me in that she gives it her all in her relationship with the man she loves. After a while when you realize that giving it all does not get you the same love in return, you just give up from the sheer fatigue of it all.

I wish it could be different. I have always been idealistic and hoped for the long lasting love that we all deserve when we find that special someone to be with. But people change and picking good partners is not enough. You can love with everything you have, but if the other person does not want to put in the work necessary to keep the relationship going it just won't work.

I think some people believe that relationships should be easy and that it will always be a walk in the park when you love someone. That is just not realistic. They don't realize the work involved, how it is not ok to be selfish in a relationship, and that everyone has flaws. I think I do love unconditionally when I am in love, but I have not found a partner who can do the same, even though I am in a good relationship now.

I know that my thoughts sound idealistic, but if people only knew the truth of my marriage, they would see that it is not ideal, not perfect, but pretty wonderful. It has been work. A lot of work. A lot of self-work. And I have grown immensely because of it.

Maybe that is the problem. People still shoot for ideal when "ideal" is different for everyone.

To make matters even harder, we live in a disposable society where instant gratification is demanded or the goal is abandoned. And that includes relationships. I would have abandoned my marriage many times over if not for my husband's stubborn refusal to hang on. And I am so thankful that he did because I worked through my immaturity and other issues to see that I am capable of loving more than I ever knew possible. Most people don't hang in there until they reach that stage.

I suppose there is a "law of diminishing returns" when it comes to giving your all and getting burned.

I got burned once and now I am so grateful that the universe sent him packing now that I see what my life would have been like with him.

With everything I've been through, I guess I've learned to accept the twists and turns in life because sometimes God, the universe, divine providence, just has better things in store for you. More than our own limited imaginations. So I don't always think of being burned so much as sometimes, we just don't choose well and life steers us down new and better paths...

Hi Lori, my second marriage was definitely better than the first one. I think I chose well at the time when I decided to spend my life with my second husband. Both of us had similar values and interests, and there was genuine caring, respect, and affection. We hardly ever fought and we never went to bed upset with each other. Getting through life's challenges was hard, but we tried to keep a sense of humor. I thought our relationship was pretty great in comparison to the others I'd see around us, but it was indeed a lot of work. Well worth it though, I thought, and I was willing until the end to work things out.

I think you are right in that instant gratification is demanded or the goal is abandoned. You don't know how many years I hung on to the "it will get better in time" attitude. I was willing to stick it out and hang in there until my husband made better money with a decent job as a result of his 8 yrs of higher education. I thought life would get a little easier for us. Funny, he reaps the rewards now with another woman, and I am at poverty level without a job. So much for my support all of those years.....

I really am not cynical, just a person who has experienced a lot of hard times and harsh realities. And so have a lot of other people, I know. I just know myself, and that I am tapped out. I have pictured myself many times being alone in my own place with my two dogs, and hopefully my two horses somewhere nearby. I'm hanging on to my animals by the skin of my teeth these days, but they are all I have left that's truly mine and mine alone, and they give me unconditional love. I feel very peaceful around my animals.

I know life brings us many twists and turns. I have faith that God will get me through the tough times, though. He did send my boyfriend to me at a time when I really needed him the most, this I have no doubt, and this new man in my life is a real gem. I will enjoy him for as long as I have him.

Lori, you have so beautifully said what I have at times tried to tell people who needed to know that loving fully is so beautiful. Risking can often bring pain and sorrow, but when one loves fully they give every part of themselves and what returns can be the most beautiful gift of all. There is someone out there who so needs what one has to give.

Lori - I actually agree with you, but as you say - you're in a happy relationship. Your thoughts and mood will be more happy and you'll think differently to Cassie. Luckily, I still feel the same - that you should put yourself out there - I'm just trying to see it from these womens points of view as they're obviously in a lot of pain.

Cassie - one thing I would say is you're never going to get perfect. You're never going to get the love you feel you deserve from this man. Have you told him you'd like him to be more loving toward you? You probably have, but so many ppl don't say what they want - and most of the time that's the best way to get it.

One thing I will bring up cos I've seen it mentioned a few times is guys watching porn. This might offend some ppl, it may not - but really who cares? LOL. It's natural that men get turned on more by visual things. You could watch it with him. Or just let him bog off in the other room and get on with it. I understand that you think, but I'm here, aren't I enough? But maybe he has fantasies he doesn't want to put you in - maybe there for his mind only and not for his g/f or wife who he loves. I honestly see no harm in it. If he's in there everyday - as long as I was getting what I needed I really would find it quite funny. Though obviously, I don't know everyone's situations here.

Funnily enough - I'm always (or usually) the one who loves more. I'm just scared to show it, because I know that when someone see's this - they take you for granted usually. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. That's why I can understand what Cassie said. It would be great if ppl could be honest with each other - but sometimes too much honesty can hurt and ppl find it difficult to express certain feelings. I think for a lot of the time if someone is with you, they either love you or care very deeply for you. Otherwise they'd be gone. It's not so much about settling, but about being realistic.

The media throws these ridiculous images of love and infatuation in our faces and life just isn't like a rom com. Not at all. It's tough and difficult and we spend a lot of it fighting for ourselves to be happy. If you've found happiness that's great, but there's a lot of us who're swimming against the tide still trying to grab ahold of it

And that's my Dear Steven for today LOL. Probably useless LOL

You're so right, dear Steven! I don't mean to sound all Pollyanna-ish when people are in pain. How annoying and hurtful that is. I'm very sorry.

Just so you know, I still do experience pain and hurt even in this "happy" relationship.

Steven.....first off, I'd like to thank you for continuing to post on this forum. I have enjoyed your point of view and your candor. I hope you will continue to visit here and post again.

I know I won't have a perfect situation with my current boyfriend. None of my relationships as good as they were at times were perfect, and I don't think "perfect" even exists. But it can be a pretty darn good relationship, which I do think I currently have with my boyfriend. I believe I love unconditionally and I always try to accept the flaws or differences of my partner. I choose to focus on the positive aspects of my partner and the relationship rather than the negative. I do believe that is one reason my marriage lasted so long. I may have been "too" accepting at times, but I always focused on the positive.

My boyfriend knows I am an intense person. He says he feels badly that he can't love me the same way. He just can't force feelings. Nobody can. But this man is a sweetheart, loving and affectionate in his own way, very kind and giving, funny and just fun to be around, and he is a very considerate intimate partner. He truly is a one of a kind guy. I have never met another guy like him. He just seems so different.

As much as I have been burned by my two husbands, I would not refuse an offer of marriage from my boyfriend if ever it would come. I love him that much and view him as a very special and all around "good" guy. He does not have a mean bone in his body. I am drawn to his aura because I can just feel the gentleness within him.

He has told me that he does not want to marry again. His casual way I believe is due to his health issues which he has had since he was a baby. At age 48 he has already had cancer, two open heart surgeries, the most recent was last fall which I was there for. He had a heart attack. He had a ton of complications and was hospitalized for 6 1/2 weeks. He is doing better now but he is still having problems. I know he thinks he could die at any time.

I think living one day at a time is what he can mentally manage, and he does so with the best possible attitude. Marriage and a possible divorce again would be too much for him to handle, I think. The fact that I am just his girlfriend is easier for him to handle. If we break up there would not be as much at stake emotionally and otherwise. I do believe that marriage is the ultimate form of commitment from your partner, but I probably will never see that from this man. That is disappointing, but one never knows what the future brings. He could change his mind or not. I am happy to be with him anyway.

So even though I know there will be no "perfect", this man treats me very well and that is what really matters. I do feel special in his eyes. I have had to come to the realization that my boyfriend loves me the way he can and the way he is able to. I appreciate him very much and accept him the way he is. I know he tries to make me happy. The fact that I live with him at all tells me he cares deeply. He is not one to live with just any woman. He actually likes living alone. So to be invited to share his life in his home with him is very special.

Sure I was burned very badly last year when I lost my husband and my marriage, but that is when my boyfriend showed up in my life. As much as it was probably a rebound situation, I did see a lot of good in my boyfriend so I figured I'd give love a try once again. If any red flags would have come up I would have been gone, but we have known each other for a year and 4 months and we are still having fun and loving each other. I did take a chance even though I was hurting so much, and it has paid off for me.

The fact that I would not want to do this again for a very long time if we broke up is because I would want to be alone to reset myself. I have been with a man since I was 22 yrs old, and I won't mind being alone. I don't have to be validated by a man, although being loved is wonderful. I just know that I would be very emotionally drained if he and I broke up, and I would not be able to bounce back from it very soon, if at all. It does hurt too much when you give all you have in a relationship. In this case with my boyfriend I am trying to find a little more balance where I take care of myself as well as him. I can't give like I used to where I gave to the degree of neglecting myself.

As for porn, I agree with Steven. It really is no big deal. Sometimes I will watch, but a lot of the time I won't because it does seem to be the same thing all the time....that is boring to me. But if my boyfriend gets a charge out of it I don't mind. It is not abused to where all he does is view porn and he has no time for me. So no harm is done as far as I am concerned.

Lori....just so you know, you did not offend me at all with any of your posts. I have enjoyed reading them. Thanks for responding in regards to my personal situation.

Sorry my posts often run so long....

Thanks, Cassie. I'm glad I didn't upset you. And no worries about your "long" posts. I'm usually a long poster. How else can you say all you need to say?

Anyway, I don't mean for my "happy" little posts to be like Band-Aids on a gaping wound. My intention was to provide hope when I read hopeless posts.

It's absolutely important to vent and to feel sad feelings, but it's equally important to be able to see the hope and move toward it or one can spiral into a pit of never-ending despair. Been there, done that.

Just trying to toss out a rope to a friend because we all need one from time-to-time.

(BTW, your boyfriend sounds as though he does have his own reasons for not making permanent relationship commitments and it doesn't have anything to do with not loving you enough. You feel special in his eyes and that is tremendous.)