logo

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: delete this account.] #657260 01/19/11 08:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,583
Ninjahedgewych Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Offline
BellaOnline Editor
Chipmunk
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Surely our thinking would be 'one more child won't impact greatly on the world problems.'
Just look at the Chinese, who created the 'one child only' rule to combat this very problem. they didn't say don't breed, just don't have ten....


The Chinese are having a re-think on this one now as it has resulted in a high level of boy children, and very spoilt ones at that. Also the problem of child abduction and lack of childcare as highlited by this news item is becoming more common. Now someone has done the math and worked out just how big the demographic time bomb re pensions is going to be if the low birthrate is continued. Check it out here


Ian - Pagan Editor

"We can never obtain peace in the outer world until we make peace with ourselves."

"With realization of one's own potential and self-confidence in one's ability, one can build a better world. "

Dalai Lama
Living Without Children - Automated Note
For New Visitors: This forum exists as a support community for people who are living a child-free existence. This area is here to help nurture, inspire and educate those who, for whatever reason, are living their lives without children in the home.

Posts made here must be supportive of this lifestyle choice. Comments should not question a person's decision to or reasons for being child free. Those negative comments are called "bingoing" or "trolling" and are not allowed. Please be sure you are aware of this forum's intentions and rules before posting!

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: delete this account.] #657368 01/19/11 04:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
R
Random Offline
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
R
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
I've bumped into Laura on other forums (including her own) and am delighted that someone is 'fighting the fight' for childfree people on a public level.

As for the question I believe that childfreeness chose me. I think I was just born without that urge to have children (if the urge does actually exist at all). I think in the same way people are born with different sexualities it's totally normal to be born with no desire to have children, just as normal (although less frequent) as being born with the desire to have children.

That said I could give you any number of logical, well thought out reasons for not having them, not least overpopulation. Indeed highest on my list would be the environmental legacy that my children (if I had them) would have to suffer while I died and escaped it all. I cannot do that to another human being. Funny how us childfree people are the 'coldhearted' ones and not the parents who bring children into the world and subject them to a worsening environment that is bringing about a higher cost of living, more natural disasters and depleting resources.

So I could back up my 'choice' with loads of logical reasons but at the end of the day I just don't want kids, and when you have no desire to have kids then no argument will make you have them because having them is completely illogical, draining, costly and worrying.

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: Ninjahedgewych] #657369 01/19/11 05:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
R
Random Offline
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
R
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 173
Originally Posted By: Ninjahedgewych
[quote]The Chinese are having a re-think on this one now as it has resulted in a high level of boy children, and very spoilt ones at that.


That's not strictly true. The Chinese have acknowledged a problem but they aren't going to remove the policy because they understand that the policy isn't the problem. (They are smart enough to realise that if they hadn't had the one-child policy then the country would currently have 400 million MORE people in it than it does just now!) The problem they realise they have is a cultural one that values boys over girls. It is THAT they are looking to change, not the policy itself. It speaks wonders for their acceptance of the facts of life that they are continuing the policy, especially while the smug 'more-advanced' countries continue to give my money to other people just to encourage them to create another environmental drain.

Equally a low birthrate is only bringing about pension/old age funding problems because for decades we have allowed the birthrate to go unchecked. It could have easily been kept in check and been kept stable such that the population level only fluctuated slighty, but unfortunately we had an industrial revolution in the 1950s and people got greedy, with their greed came having lots of children. It wasn't a biological urge that caused the birthrate to shoot up, it was access to money! That's about as selfish as it gets. So here's a thought.

Say we increase the birthrate to bring about more workers to fund our pensions, well:
1. In 2070 these births will have lead to an even larger number of people receiving state pensions, potentially double/triple current numbers.
2. Medicine will also have advanced and so people will easily live to an even older age than now (90s instead of 80s say).
3. This even higher amount of elderly people, many of whom will be increasingly infirm due to growing levels of diabetes and heart disease causing amputations to be necessary, will put a heavy financial burden on the healthcare and social system.
4. The people that are of working age in 2070 (the grandchildren of the original births) will have to bear that financial burden through higher taxes and limited medical and social provisions, all the while with the threat that there will be no money in the pot for their own pensions.
5. So what will they doin 2070? Will they encourage even more childbearing to produce even more workers to pay for their own pensions?

Can you see that encouraging more births is just a vicious circle because the people that are born will get old, that's not up for debate. They are not just today's children and tomorrow's workers, they are the future's elderly and pension recipients!

The only solution to the current problem is that at least one generation (preferably two) agrees to take the financial hit for the current ageing population, and I don't mind if that generation is mine. Creating more children just delays the problem by passing onto our children an even worse ageing population problem than we are experiencing. Is that fair? Do we want that for our children? Anyone who loves their children will wish to prevent this happening to them. Genuine love for children means being prepared to take the hit yourself to prevent them have to take a worse hit.

The "having more children" idea doesn't just affect the payment of pensions and old age care, it also causes housing shortages meaning we will be packed into ever decreasing-sized houses. Roads and public transport will be so jammed the cost of travel will sky rocket. Technology is advancing so job creation won't increase as quickly as the working age population increases and unemployment will increase. All of this will further increase the divide between rich and poor, quality of life will most definitely become something purely for the rich. Parks and open areas will disappear for housing and, coupled with the above, this will cause poorer all round health and more mental health problems. Not least we will have almost no privacy whatsoever.

There is NO solution to the ageing population and anyone that believes there is just doesn't want to face up to reality. The governments know it and have discussed it with the top scientists but encouraging people to have less children and our generation taking a financial hit isn't a vote-winning policy so the politicians are avoiding it, even though it is in the best long-term interests of the planet and its population!

When listening to politicians it is important to remember that none of them have your long-term interests at heart, they cannot afford to because if they model policy on long-term benefit they won't get voted back into power (even if they can still do another term) to continue with their policy. WE are the only ones that can take care of our long-term wellbeing so WE have to tell politicians that this is what we want and be willing to vote for a policitian even when his/her policies will personally cost us financially.

So next time you hear a politician mention anything about a way to fix the ageing population problem, ask yourself whether his idea is a vote winner (it will be)? If it is a vote winner then it can categorically be ignored because modern democracy systems are set-up such that governments can only get into and stay in power if they concentrate purely for on our short-term wellbeing. Our democratic systems are failing us.

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: Random] #657750 01/21/11 08:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 43
firegirl Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 43
Bloody hell, Random, that was some wicked post! It is the best, most comprehensive and understandable explanation of the issue of population aging that I have ever heard! (Also on why not to trust politicians :) ) I have always hated that particular argument against being CF - I just KNEW it was wrong but could never explain why so well. I'm going to use it in the future, when stupid people tell me that it's their children who will pay for my retirement!

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: delete this account.] #657825 01/21/11 08:45 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13
L
Laura families of two Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
L
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13
Hi Laura again...reading the string brought to mind the birth order point..while I have not seen formal studies, I sure run into Lots of childfree that are the oldest or the only children. The oldest often get to do their share of babysitting and talk about how they never liked it. Only kids seem to grow up being around adults more and that be a contributng factor. I love the point that being childfree "chose me" -- for those who know ealry in life, they talk about how it was never really a "decision" as much as a "realization."

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: delete this account.] #667742 03/06/11 03:32 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14
S
sann Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
S
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 14
I see my friends / co workers struggling with their childrens issues on a daily basis. It is amazing to me how much heartache and disappointment several of these parents experience due to their childs behavior. Even grown children!! I know when the children are little, parents have nice memories and experiences, but honestly I see parents of many adult children living a life of heartache due to the fact that they either have to bail their kids out of trouble, pay their bills, take care of their kids (their grandchildren), and deal with their issues. My husband and I have decided not to have any children but we have also noticed that CF couples can be ostracized by couples that are not CF. I mean it is fine, but sometimes people can be mean about it. Like we are child haters or something. We just have a good marriage and enjoy one another; without children. I just look around at most parents and frankly I do not want to live that way. Frazzled and on edge all the time. And for what? After you devote 18 yrs to them they just turn their backs on you.

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: sann] #667754 03/06/11 06:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 146
thisiseasycash Offline
Jellyfish
Offline
Jellyfish
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 146
For me when I was growing up having children was never something I imagined in my life. I played with dolls but never looked at them and thought one day I will be a mother. I just never had a strong desire to have kids.

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: thisiseasycash] #668580 03/09/11 02:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 89
C
catluvgal Offline
Amoeba
Offline
Amoeba
C
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 89
As I write this, I site in a hotel room listening to someone's child throw a fit. I've set my TV to ultra-loud as whining children make me want to be physically violent. So, back to the discussion. My desire to have kids, or not, seems to come from two places: my "family" and the boyfriend I had at any given time. The second one is the easiest: if I was dating a stable, mature guy, I could see having kids. If not, not. I ultimately did not end up married until I was 37 years old and my hubs 40. Since I never had any interest in sharing my home with toddlers in my 40s, the kid option took care of itself in many ways. The first one is a little more complicated. My parents were an arranged marriage. The arrangement ended when I was about 7. My mom and I went one way, my brother and dad went another. I call us "a family of individuals". Connected by blood and obligation, but that is it. We had no extended family around us, that includes grandparents and all my female role models were unmarried and child-free (with the exception of my mother, of course). Traditional family was just never part of my world. I don't have any sense of wanting it either. Oh by the way, the kid next door is still throwing that fit. I might have to bang on a wall later if it doesn't stop. 10pm is the cut off...

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: sann] #668657 03/09/11 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 59
J
jcorvette Offline
Amoeba
Offline
Amoeba
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 59
our friends dont care that we dont have children..thats their choice just as its our choice. its sad that ppl if there are mean about it they arent your true friends. where would we be if we disliked frieds that have kids...we would not have may friends. they are the ones who are suffering with kids.

Re: Why do we choose child free ? [Re: jcorvette] #669668 03/13/11 03:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
O
onthefence Offline
Newbie
Offline
Newbie
O
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3
Interesting thread! Especially the part about being more independent/valuing freedom. I am one of four children and while my parents are awesome and we had a great childhood, there was never enough money and I saw every single day how that stressed them out--and continues to. I started working as soon as I could to be able to go to movies with my friends, play sports in school, buy clothes, etc. I don't blame my parents at all, but I do shamefully remember being a bratty teenager and yelling at my mom, asking her why she had us if they couldn't afford us (god, I would never want a teenage me!). We have worked hard to be at the stage where we don't have to worry about money on a day to day basis and having a kid would change that, something I'm not willing to give up. That all said, like Gaynor said I think if I really wanted a kid we'd make it work. I think the strongest argument for us is the freedom of being able to make decisions for just the two of us. If we want to move halfway across the country, we can do it and not worry about schools, daycare, upsetting the kid, etc. If we want to explore opportunities living abroad, no problem. We recently visited the area where I served in the Peace Corps and would love go go back again--that would SO not happen with kids. Ah freedom. The possibilities of what my husband and I can do together are endless and that is so exciting. Sabine, by the way I can totally relate! I love going to friend and family weddings, but for us it seems like such a complete waste of money for one day. We went to the justice of the peace and held an informal backyard bbq reception 6 months later. We had SO many people telling us that they would have loved to done what we did if it wasn't for their family. Even if our families were able to contribute to a wedding, I still would have rather had that money for a down payment or savings!

Last edited by onthefence; 03/13/11 03:11 PM.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Brand New Posts
Astro Advent 2020
by Mona - Astronomy - 12/02/20 07:54 AM
2020: On this day . . .
by Mona - Astronomy - 12/02/20 07:18 AM
Advent 2020
by Angie - 12/02/20 03:24 AM
Container Gardening TIP OF THE DAY
by Lestie4containergardens - 12/01/20 07:45 AM
When does Christmas Season End?
by Angie - 11/30/20 11:54 PM
Native American Heritage Month
by Angela - Drama Movies - 11/29/20 01:25 AM
Thanksgiving and Gratitude
by Angie - 11/28/20 01:36 PM
Meanwhile in Canada
by Angie - 11/28/20 01:34 PM
Thanksgiving in Space
by Angie - 11/28/20 01:30 PM
The Solar System - for Kids & Others
by Mona - Astronomy - 11/28/20 12:39 PM
Privacy
This forum uses cookies to ensure smooth navigation from page to page of a thread. If you choose to register and provide your email, that email is solely used to get your password to you and updates on any topics you choose to watch. Nothing else. Ask with any questions!
Channel List
Beauty & Self
Books & Music
Career
Computers
Education
Family
Food & Wine
Health & Fitness
Hobbies & Crafts
Home & Garden
Money
News & Politics
Relationships
Religion & Spirituality
Sports
Travel & Culture
TV & Movies
Safety
We take forum safety very seriously here at BellaOnline. Please be sure to read through our Forum Guidelines. Let us know if you have any questions or comments!
Sponsor


| About BellaOnline | Privacy Policy | Advertising | Become an Editor |
Website copyright © 2020 Minerva WebWorks LLC. All rights reserved.


Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3