BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Democratic Party Obama....a Socialist or Exemplifies Democracy?

Oh, and making an exit plan for Iraq. With a timeline. Something reasonable, yet hopeful.

One thing this discussion is NOT about is race. The public support for Obama through this election has proven institutionalized racism is a thing of the past. That's a good thing.

Its interesting that there are still people who believe tax programs favor the rich, when 3 % of the US populations pays 50 % of the revenues received by the IRS.

The situation we find ourselves in is not caused by the movement of jobs out of country. There are plenty of jobs here, but many Americans simply don't want them. It is your option to choose not to take work when work is available. I understand that from a very personal perspective, having worked in positions I did not want simply because there was nothing available in the area I trained for or had experience in. My husband finds himself in that same position; but has made the positive decision to opt to take any job (even at our local McDonald's which pays $9 - $14 per hour) over remaining unemployed.

If you're dissatisfied with what you're paying for insurance, and I complain about that too, then you're likely to be dissatisfied with the amount of taxes you're going to have to pay to support a nationalized healthcare system. We have programs in place already that help insure coverage for those who need it most (CHIP, medicaid). It would be better to work towards fully funding those programs and expanding access parameters so that qualification isn't such a hardship.

Taxing coal and other existing fossil and nuclear energy industries out of business is not a solution as there are no other alternative, large-scale energy systems in place to replace them. Yes, we have green energy options; but they aren't available everywhere to everyone at this point in time. Once there are large-scale alternatives in place across the US, then it is reasonable to shut down fossil fuel and nuclear systems.

Throwing money at social problems and expanding government control into business, industry and our personal lives isn't a solution. History has proven that in other countries--repeatedly. We have the chance to learn from that and choose another path now.

As for pulling out of Iraq, that's a great goal. But we have Afghanistan and Russia/Poland coming in right behind this. The world's a mess. I don't forsee, even with a so-called Democrat in charge, a vast change in military interventionist policies. Why do I say that? Because Obama and many others who have bought into the promise actively support the concept of mandatory national service (including military service). Why support this if the intent is not to support ongoing military action overseas?

Bring the military action idea back home now. Obama has stated he will work actively with our elected representatives to make certain our domestic police force is as strong a force as our military. What does that mean? I'm not entirely certain; but the idea that we might have tanks rolling through our streets, patrolling our neighborhoods (and yes that is an extreme perspective, it may not get that bad), is a horrific one.

Will I change my perspective? No. Our President Elect has made too many public statements regarding his views and he's made too many pacts with Congressional members for me to feel comfortable doing that.

Is there hope? Absolutely, we have elected representatives now that are still centrist, still interested in the basic rights of the people, still supportive of our constitution and the freedoms it provide. We have a chance.

Is there the possibility that I'm wrong. Certainly. The only things in life that are guaranteed are death and taxes. I would be ecstatic if Obama and his supporters in Congress take action that causes me to eat my words. But, I don't see that happening.

Will I work WITH Obama? No. Not unless he does a 180 on policy and moves away from a socialist agenda to an agenda that insures we have a government of the people, by the people and for the people. I will, however, do everything I can to work with elected leaders who still maintain the interests of the people at the center of their agenda and frame their laws and policies around the people.

Our Constitution states that our government must be of the people, by the people and for the people. I'll grant you he has the best of intentions (most socialist leaders have good intentions), but his methods remove control from the people and put it in the hands of the government machine.

Lynn, with all due respect, how in your opinion can we get things done if so many are not willing to work together ? Please do not think for one minute that I feel we must ALL think alike, because I don't feel that way. I do feel that in order to make anything better, we need to be united. I personally am willing to bend and with that in mind, what project can I join you in to help initiate change ? Again I am willing.

Change for the singular purpose of change is purposeless. Change with a purpose is reason. Uniting for this purpose then is unreasonable.

To protect the fabric of America, we must work to preserve the rights we are guaranteed under the Constitution; reduce the power of government; work towards providing avenues that create sustainability. What does that mean?

What can you do? There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest. Protest broad government interventions that remove or reduce the rights of the people to pursue life, liberty and happiness. Remember history. Remember what has happened in other countries that have implemented broad socialist programs.

Recognize that nothing in this life is free. We must all work for what we have (and if you work harder than me, then yes you should be rewarded for that).

Restructure taxation so that everyone pays into the system (flat tax). Restructure programs so that if you want services (healthcare) you work towards them and you contribute towards them.

Make it easier for businesses (not harder) to create and maintain jobs. Unions aren't supportive of this activity and neither are higher taxes.

Create avenues for companies to easily develop large-scale alternative energy solutions. If all we due is make it harder for certain industries to provide energy now, we're harming our citizens who have nothing else to rely on.

My list goes on and on, ad infinitum.

Elie Wiesel reminds us how futile it is to reject the past in favor of jumping to a future for the sake of change. "Just as man cannot live without dreams, he cannot live without hope. If dreams reflect the past, hope summons the future. Does this mean that our future can be built on a rejection of the past? Surely such a choice is not necessary. The two are not incompatible. The opposite of the past is not the future but the absence of future; the opposite of the future is not the past but the absence of past. The loss of one is equivalent to the sacrifice of the other."

I will agree to disagree with you Yes I agree with you on many points, many of our "systems" need a total restructure but some of the business made very poor decisions, such asBellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

I think the use of Mr. Wiesel's quote is very interesting. He was absolutely right in saying that we cannot turn away from the past -- we must never forget the lessons that it has taught us.

But, at the same time, I think the majority of people who voted for Barak did so on the basis that he wasn't just promising change for change's sake -- that he had a real reason, in fact, more than one, for suggesting it was neceeary.

I would argue that the "dreams" and "hopes" he speaks of are exactly the reason that change was necessary. There are too many children going without being taught to dream. There are too many people who feel that they are beyond hope in their current situations (whether it is fiscal or militaristic or what-have-you).

And, it seems hard to imagine that the party that re-introduced widespread use of warrantless (judiciously, not a comment on whether it was necessary) wiretapping or imprisonment without charges/trial would be touting rights under the constitution... 'Cause I think those two are in there somewhere, if I'm not mistaken.

I think it's time for all Americans to take a step back from politics and look at their own, personal lives and ask if you're living the life, and acting in a manner, which the Founding Fathers would want for citizens of this country. And I don't think any pure "ism" would make the grade.

Sure, there are low paying jobs to be found. But how is one to prosper and achieve their American dreams on these kinds of wages? Outsourcing really is a major problem. Even McDonalds tried to find ways to outsource order-taking positions. The problem lies in the lack of patriotic desire to employ American citizens - so that we can remain prosperous, not scraping for jobs that barely sustain us. It's disparaging.

"While America has lost 1 million jobs since 2001, employers have been outsourcing hundreds of thousand of jobs to other countries in order to lower their costs. And they've moved millions more to low-cost contractors in the U.S. that provide services on the cheap by paying low wages and providing few or no benefits to employees."BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Obama's entire philosophy is to take care of the people,

Why do people keep making this assumption, of any politician? Does anyone really believe they work for months, years, getting into position, spending vast amounts of money, some of it possibly their own, to have the chance to "take care of the people"? If you believe this I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for sale, cheap.

Just FYI, this is the Democratic Party forum. Not saying anyone can't talk here, but people looking for support for Republican views might post in the Republican Party forum here on BellaOnline?

I am trying to be delicate here, as I post in the Rep forum from time to time. But when I do post there, i try to be respectful of where I am. I try not to rip into Republican viewpoints since it's just not the right place to do it. :-)

Yes! It is pureness of reason to restore a crumbling nation. There were many changes made in the Bush Administration that had crippling effects, world wide. We must, and will, now change again, from that...Change is never ending - without it, there is no life.



While Elie didn't mention the futility of change on any level in her quote, she did write an eloquent example of the essential value of living in the present. To to let go of the illusion of "past" and "future" simultaneously is to be ever present in the now. Now is all we have. It is the fear of, or the loss of either past or future that harbors futility.
These are great words of wisdom.

Shay