BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Why do I find it so unappealing?

Hey Manatee

Just out of interest... what academic pursuits are you following?

I'm Ogriv. I've been lurking a lot lately, but I also posted about a month ago for the first time after a horrendous visit to my godchildren. I was amazed at how articulate and compassionate everyone was on here. I was almost embarrassed at how much people were interested in my rant!

The reason I'm intrigued about your academic stuff? I'm 70-30 against having kids (I'm nearly 35) and one of the things I'm agonising over right now is whether to do a psychology PhD and then trying to get work in academia as a lecturer/researcher. I think I would love teaching. I'm more attracted to that than the other option i.e. becoming an applied psychologist who works with people (probably because my current job is in social care... my clients are very chaotic and I don't see much positive change).

But doing the PhD doesn't necessarily mean a secure job with good pay. The applied route does - people to look after the unfortunate will always be in high demand. Of course, when you get to your mid-30s there are many notions of what you should have accomplished by that age... often more security and possessions, the whole shebang. I'm not necessarily against security and possessions, but not if they trap me in a job which is unstimulating. I suspect I'll end up following my heart and doing the PhD - after all, as you say, that's the luxury of not having children... you can follow your dreams. It sounds like you're loving the choice you made - am I right?

Hi Ogriv,

It's nice to have you on the board. Yes, I agree that the decision isn't always easy - I too have moments when I wonder what I'm doing with my life, and whether I shouldn't just grit my teeth and get on with a job to achieve the sort of security you've talked about, rather than doing something fun with uncertain prospects... On the other hand, I believe that we only have one shot at life, so it's important to do what you think will make you happy. I used to work as a lawyer, and although that job provided great security, it also made me miserable. I'm much happier now, although I do still worry about the future sometimes.

I'm graduating this year with a BA in Ancient History and Egyptology, and planning to go on to do an MA and eventually a PhD (although this is to some extent dependent on whether or not I can secure funding). What I would do after the PhD is more nebulous; my tutor seems to think that I will go into academia and teaching, but I'm not so sure. My dream job would be to work in the British Museum (I study in London), so we shall see!

Good luck with reaching the right decision for you. Is there any way to pursue a PhD while keeping your options open on the applied front, or are the two paths mutually exclusive? Sorry if this is a stupid question - psychology is not a career I know anything about!

Oh, ha ha!

Seriously. Maybe I should start lurking on the parenthood sites and make fun of them for sharing their feelings. Oh, wait. I'm not discourteous, nor do I misinterpret other people who are simply communicating with those who actually understand them.

I saw a van today that said CF in the back window! It was written on the window in green. I was wondering why it would be there, or if it meant something else.

That comment was funny though, because she must have been thinking, "Boy, people with Cystic Fibrosis sure have a lot of weird things to talk about!"

hee hee

I REALLY admire EVERYONE on this board for their academic achievements. I really value education and higher learning, and I'm so proud to be surrounded by so many like-minded people.

I have been thinking lately about how I want to go back to school to get a degree in biology. (I already have an MA in communication.) I am HORRIBLE at math, and it would be a real challenge. Also, money is a huge factor, and time. I certainly don't have time or money right now. But it is something I want to do in the future. I guess, to me, getting that degree is like how some women feel about having a baby. You don't want to wait too long because then you maybe can't conceive (i.e. will have a harder time remembering all that stuff you learned before.) And you can't afford a baby, but you can never afford a baby (just like school is so expensive.) However, unlike a baby, you can get some of that money back when you have a job!

Also, I want to touch on the SAHM issue. This is just a personal feeling, and I'm sure I'll have moms SOOO super mad at me. But to me, if you're a SAHM, what is your contribution to the world? You are basically a slave to someone else 24/7. I feel really bad for moms who are SAHMS. It's like they're admitting that they're nothing more than a baby machine. Have baby. Take care of baby. Repeat. That's what animals do.

To be living a fulfilling human existence, you need more, at least in my opinion. A job is so much more than just bringing in money. It can be fulfilling and enriching if you have the right position. And if you don't, you can go to school and become qualified for the position you WANT. And if you are a mother, you can still have a meaningful existence outside of having children. That's the beauty of being a modern woman.

If I was a SAHM, at the end of my life I would look back and say, "what difference did I make in this world?" And the answer would be "raising kids who will fulfill the dreams I never could."

So that's how I feel. It's harsh, but true. If you really want to waste the life you were given, you remember, that "miracle" that your mother produced, sitting at home watching Billy make mud pies for the 50th time that week, then you have my blessing.

Right now, I make a difference in this world. It's a small difference now, but eventually it will be greater, I hope. I work for and fully believe in an organization that is making a huge difference in conservation, animal education, etc., and through my videography I help spread that message.

Not that I'd ever expect for anyone to know who I am, but here's a good analogy.

When you think about people who have really made a difference in this world, who have made it a better place, who do you think about? Einstein, Lincoln, Washington, Jackson (that's Peter, not Andrew :-) You don't hear about "when Einstein's mother was raising him ... when Washington's mother was raising him ..."

And that is why I would NEVER EVER EVER be a SAHM if I ever decided to get pregnant.

OMG, FBGB, I could have written your post! I don't know how I missed this earlier. I can't remember if we've ever bonded over this similarity before. I know a lot of us are similar in a lot of ways on this board. This is what people don't get when I say parenting isn't for me, and it isn't my responsibility to explain it to others. It's just how I am. I bet there are others that are like us, and don't realize it, and have kids, and go insane b/c they have no time to think, breathe, or do anything.

I am also very private and need space, and have been in similar work situations. It's awful. Corporate America is moving in the direction of more cubicles, and it just isn't dignifed. People should have some personal space and breathing room. We're human beings, not animals at the zoo. I literally had a job where I shared a workspace that was the size of the backseat of a car. Adding insult to injury, the woman sharing this workspace with me weighed, literally, I'm not exaggerating, about 500 lbs. It was *ridiculous*. I complained and ultimately got a better work space. And I didn't care if I wasn't pc. The facts are, if you weigh 500 lbs., you need your own work space.

I hate that you can't make a short phone call. Even if it isn't necessarily a private issue, I just don't like everyone in my business. I wouldn't be able to be very creative if I was constantly worrying about meeting someone's physical demands. I would literally cry my eyes out every day. I would hate parenting so much.

Someone like my MIL would love that environmental b/c she loves being in other people's business and doesn't care about her own privacy. I can't even relate to this way of being. Go figure.

I agree with you both! I could have written the part about needing time to shut out the world and just be by myself. I NEED alone time. I crave it. I am extremely [censored] without it, and I start to feel like I'm not completely together. ... Ok, I tried coming up with a good analogy, but none of them fit.

When I worked at the place I still call hell (I believe I've posted before about how horrible it was), I was irritable all the time. Not just because the workplace was so needlessly stressful, but because I never had alone time while I worked there. My hubby and I had the same schedule so I rarely was alone at home. I shared an office with someone else - constantly someone new - and it wasn't bad at times, but I resented the lack of privacy and having to deal with another person's quirks. One woman used a space heater even in the summertime, and I tend to run hotter than others so it was torture for me. A guy ate sardines for an afternoon snack EVERYDAY. Another woman prayed over my head... and I'm not religious. And I'm off on a tangent here.

Anyway, now I have a great job with mostly wonderful people, but I have the option to work from home and take it whenever I can. I can't believe the difference in me. I'm more balanced (as much as I believe I can be, ha ha), have much more patience, and relax more. I don't party anymore, and it's great! I just can't keep the social calendar that I used to because it's too much, and that's okay with me. Is this part of aging or what? I used to enjoy being around lots of people, and now I avoid it as much as possible.

I am exactly like this too!!!

I had to share an office with a woman who they found through a welfare to work program for single mothers. I got to sit there and listen to her life fall apart around constantly, and got in trouble for chatting when we should have been working because she would not shut up. I will do my best to refuse sharing office space ever again.

Here's another thought about SAHM-dom that will I hope does not generate any flames. If I were a guy, and a woman I was dating told me she wanted to get married, have children, and be a SAHM, I would have a hard not time not viewing that as gold-digging. It's like telling someone up front, "I want to be dependent on you completely, and to have an equal share of all your money while you keep working." I can see the allure, but to me it's never felt equal. I would want to be a stay at home mom IF I had kids, and I feel like it's better for the kids, I just think it's a screwed up system and I'm not sure how it can be improved.

Me too! I like one on one situations, but I don't overdose on them. When my parents were down here over the long weekend, I was exhausted by the time they left. We had a great visit - my Dad was so relaxed b/c my nephew wasn't with them. He's a completely different person sans kids. But I'm getting off topic.

But I know part of it was that I didn't have any down time! And, we were going constantly, sight seeing, eating out, etc. My uncle and aunt were here, too, and I love them, but I just got burned out on all the social stuff.

This is another rarity I think about some of the people on this board. Most people need someone around at all times even if they don't necessarily like the person! I'm exactly the opposite. I hate meaningless social activities, and talking about nothing.

I know I'm on a roll with MIL today, so sorry about that in advance. But that's another reason I can't identify with her. She's into gossiping about everyone and I don't care! None of the gossip is that interesting and it's mean spirited. I don't want to talk about real stuff, and I have so little to contribute on the surface level. I just don't care about a lot of small talk.