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kittybeep #350633 10/28/07 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: kittybeep


I got insanely [censored] off and I started screaming at them, "If you think you guys are going to heaven, then I'd rather be in hell and be away from you idiots!"

That is the one thing that pisses me off more than anything. I hate how people think they can dicate what women do with their bodies. And it seems to me that the religious people are the ones that are leading the front. Whatever happened to not judging?



The problem is that you think that the unborn child is part of the women's body, like her arms, legs, organs, etc. The unborn child is a separate entity, it has D.N.A pattern that is all its own. It is an individual separate from the mother.

You are an individual separate from your mother, you always have been. The woman can do what she wants with her body as long as it doesn�t harm others.


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Cathy231 #350634 10/28/07 11:26 PM
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I must admit that I'm a big supporter of abortion and that Cathy's post troubles me a little.

If the unborn child knew that it was going to be born into an unloving home with no support - would it want to still be born and struggle through life?

In Australia recently a father murdered his two year old son just after getting him back from the foster parents. That little boy died a horrific death, would his life have been less traumatic if an abortion had been considered (although his parents then would have missed out on the $5000 baby bonus from the government)?

I guess my point is that many people do have an abortion because it is in the best interests of the child.

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Originally Posted By: Malamutes own me


If the unborn child knew that it was going to be born into an unloving home with no support - would it want to still be born and struggle through life?



We all struggle through life. Many people have been born in poverty, and in horrible family conditions, yet they turned out O.K.

The unloving home with no support sounds like neglect, which is a crime and the parents are at fault not the child. If you know that you are going to neglect your own child then why get pregnant? The parents are the mature adults who are responsible for the welfare of their children. The child is the innocent victim of these� adults� who won�t be responsible and don�t care for children. You say it is better to kill the child of these bad parents, I say why cater to these bad parents when they are the problem, not the child.


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Originally Posted By: Malamutes own me


In Australia recently a father murdered his two year old son just after getting him back from the foster parents. That little boy died a horrific death, would his life have been less traumatic if an abortion had been considered (although his parents then would have missed out on the $5000 baby bonus from the government)?



Here you are showing concern over the horrific death of this little boy, yet you think that abortion would not be a horrific death. This seems rational thinking to you?


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Originally Posted By: Malamutes own me

I guess my point is that many people do have an abortion because it is in the best interests of the child.



If everybody thought that the BEST interest for children was to kill them then this would be a pretty horrible place to live.

Besides we have all heard of other insane people killing their neighbors, family, animals, and children. They are crazy and need to be delt with in the proper manner. Lets not go and kill off everything that offends them. Do you see the logic.

You seem to think that the insane people have more rights and should be catered to, then those people who are just living out their life and happen to get involved with these disturbed people.


Cathy231 #350649 10/29/07 01:05 AM
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In response to kittybeep. Your friend believes she is going to hell because she had the abortion, because she had no support system. Then why not adoption? No baby, no expense, no abortion, no hell? I'm not saying I have an opinion one way or the other, I am saying this option of avoiding hell may have been to her benefit.


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Originally Posted By: Malamutes own me
If the unborn child knew that it was going to be born into an unloving home with no support - would it want to still be born and struggle through life?


Well, that was my life and I have always been thankful that abortion wasn't legal when my mother was pregnant. My struggles strengthened me. Why do so many have the idea that there is no value to struggle? Many great contributors to the world have been people who have suffered and struggled.


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Wouldn't it make MORE sense to educate people on how NOT to become pregnant when they are NOT in a position to take care of a child, maybe some education to teach people what is required to take care of a child since so many seem to think they can but when the baby comes find they have no clue?

I find it so strange that Fundies and right wingers, don't want education about birth control taught to their children. Doesn't it make MORE sense to educate them on how NOT to become pregnant?

Statistics show that these abstinence programs are not working. Kids are going to have sex AND when they are not taught how to do it responsbily, they do it anyway.

Why not give them the education to NOT become pregnant in the first place, rather the allowing it to keep happening AND then putting people who are clearly not prepared to be parents in the position of feeling like they are going to hell for having an abortion.

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I agree with Lisa's post. I remember reading an article years ago that compared countries rates of abortions/unwanted children that had active safe sex policies (bill boards for condomns, public safe sex education, etc.) to countries like ours with our abstinence policy. The results were astronomical. The difference was huge. It just shows that the promotion of safe sex works much better than abstinence programs which are barely working at all.

Abortion isn't always the worse end to a pregnancy though. What about the large number of aborted babies born to drug addicts that would have a nonexhistant chance of adoption/a normal life? Yes, you can educate these people to see what they've done is wrong, but they most likely know that already. In the end you have a drug addicted baby born to a mother on crack. It perpetuates a cycle that most people would prefer to stop. The child's suffering would be prolonged and he'll most likely die in some way as a result of addiction. Let alone the fact that the baby has a high chance of not even developing properly because of the drugs the mother took.

Cathy231 #350815 10/29/07 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cathy231

The woman is not the one whose life is going to be terminated. What do you think the unborn child would want? It is the mothers responsibility to care for her child.


It's very doubtful pro-lifers would change their position based on anything we pro-choicers say (and vice versa), so I'm reticent to get involved in this debate...and this isn't really the place.

But I do have say, this sentiment that a women's rights end in favor of the embryo once she becomes pregnant is frightening to me. Maybe this isn't a good analogy, but to me it's like saying if a chicken lays an egg, the egg has more rights than the chicken. Of course many of us eat both chickens and eggs, so it's kind of a moot point. Most people agree it's not right to eat human babies, mothers, or embryos ...but do eat the placenta! sick

Maybe that's the way it has to be, and I do feel like parents need to be held to task to raise children they give birth to (or find them a better home). And even late-term abortions don't seem right to me (unless there is mitigating circumstances in which it makes more sense).

But, this is a big issue for why not having children brings me some relief. Right now I'm free. I really don't like the idea of both sacrificing my rights and opening up my life to government intrusion.

Last edited by frieda7; 10/29/07 02:42 PM.
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