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Parakeet
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Parakeet
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It's about time someone told the truth.
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Jellyfish
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Jellyfish
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I have several comments.
First, this comes from fox news. I take everything they report with a cup of salt. Their reporting is incredibly biased -- except for the people who lean the same way they do.
Second, Watson was not speaking based on some experiment he did or on anything scientific at all. He was giving his opinion. This is an elderly man who grew up in a time when his opinion was commonly accepted by many.
Third, Watson says even if his opinion is correct, it is not an excuse for discrimination.
What really makes me shudder is his mention of genetic manipulation to eliminate severely mentally retarded and even "ugly" people before birth. "Sorry, astrophysics, you will have to do without Stephen Hawking's contributions -- he has a genetic disorder and is 'unattractive'." I wonder how Hawking would respond to Watson?
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Shark
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Fox News just reported what the man said. They sited their sources. Just reporting someone's comments does not make the comments Fox's.
My guess is that these are the unfortunate ramblings of an aging scientist. As you read his comments, it's obvious Watson is pretty much "spouting off" without truly thinking things through (at best). Also, I wonder how much this man ever really got out in the world. If he had, he surely would have met a bunch of people who are exceptions to every preconceived notion to which he gives voice. I would take HIS comments with a "cup of salt." It's depressing to realize, but a person can be brilliant in one way and extra stupid in others.
Even though he said what he did about not using his comments to justify descrimination, I'm not sure his disclaimer will be noticed by anyone determined to descriminate. People bent on descrimination would probably love to quote this man anyway.
You are totally right about Stephen Hawking!
cela
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Parakeet
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It unfortunate that News agencies don't edit themselves a little closer, just the idea that they thought this appropriate to report on speaks volumes about Fox News. They are responsible for their content.
Make no mistake, their choice to report this is directly related to how well Obama is doing in the polls, once again Fox is showing the disgusting underbelly of their low morals, encourage racial division and giving a rallying point for people who hate people just for the color of their skin.
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Gecko
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I know plenty of stupid of every race, Mr. Watson just put himself on my list of REALLY stupid people!
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Koala
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Koala
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Well I think if white are so smart then why are we just white or white non hispanic on the censes reports and jop apps while everyone else gets to be something American?
we could be
White Americans
Cocasin Americans
Ireish Americans
Scottish American
French American
German Americans
Polish Americans
English Americans
Mut mix American
at lested we would be AMERICAN!!! not a not something else or Just a color!
Oh yeah We Whites rele smarts there!
Who can up with this shinola anyways?
Last edited by freebubbles3; 10/18/07 03:21 PM.
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Koala
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I just noticed that the blacks aint that smart either. on the censes report they are listed as Black non hispanic so.....
the report is still shinoloa!
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Parakeet
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I grew up part of my life near Boston in South Lancaster and Sterling, then when it was time for me to attend high school my parents moved us back to Texas which was THEIR home. I later returned for college near Boston so I am geographically confused. I don't know whether to be disarmingly friendly or rude and stand offish but one thing I have never been is a racist.
Well to say the least that was an adjustment...I had a guy try to convince me that black people had an actual difference in their DNA that made them MORE closely related to APES then white people. He was serious as death, he really believed what he was saying.
Sometimes the stupidity of my own race is alarming. There were many times when I lived in Texas that I was ashamed to be white.
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Koala
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Koala
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amen!! I think we should all the color blind!
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Shark
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". . .just the idea that they [Fox] thought this appropriate to report on speaks volumes about Fox News"
Most of us, with the possible exception of "Jim," appear to agree on the horrors of racial stereotyping; but the concern over whether Fox (or any news outlet, really) should have covered this story is, by itself, an important issue. It goes to the heart of freedom of information. I'm personally glad we had this link to Dr. W's quotes.
Having a bit of a journalism background, I can say that whoever composed this article did it appropriately. It is a straight news item, not an editorial. As such, the facts are reported, and the reader is left to digest those facts. Editorializing and/or censorship are inappropriate in the context of straight news. For instance, the reporter would have been out of line to express an opinion on the absurdity of Dr. W's comments since it is not an article about the reporter's opinions. Dr. W's comments are exposed, though; and he is, obviously, accountable for his comments.
All editors have space/time considerations, but good journalism mandates coverage of a broad range of topics. Race related topics are no exception. I wouldn't be comfortable if my news sources thought their mission was to limit what I was exposed to--or to direct my thinking by editorializing in a straight news item. Editorializing is supposed to be strictly for the editorial page or editorial time slots. (This is one of the hardest things for journalists to adhere to.)
Our job as consumers of news is to seek out several sources for our news. A journalism instructor of mine shared this concept with her students. She said that to get a more accurate perspective on any story, a person should seek out multiple sources. This has proven to be SO true. One reporter may have a source that another doesn't have. Thank goodness we live in a country where we have SO many options--if we doubt one source, we can consult another. Or, if we just want more on a particular story, we can look at multiple sources. Anyway, looking for multiple sources is the best protection against being manipulated by any particular source.
In this case, "Jim" was my first "source." He made a short statement which he attempted to substantiate with the Fox article. Being curious, I looked at the Fox article. I'm glad I read it. For me, Dr. W. basically shot himself in the foot when he failed to censor his unscientific side! Now, if I happen to land in an auditorium where he is introduced as a speaker, (1) I'll know what they left off of his "credentials" in the introduction and (2) I'll know to be wary of his conclusions.
Just a few thoughts.
cela
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Jellyfish
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I�m not sure how Obama is factoring into that, or what FOX channel has to do with this. To me, this is just another sign that as a society in general more and more people are suffering from �diarrhea of the mouth� where they believe their drivel is ambrosia that must be spread.
Consider the fact that this Nobel Prize-winning geneticist considers himself a �lifelong Democrat and avowed secular humanist�, and any notion about racism go by the wayside. Add to this that our first poster has failed to mention the follow up articleBellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
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Parakeet
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I believe in freedom of the press and the right of the public to know however...Fox has been a problem when it comes to "responsible journalism" for some time. In fact the words Fox and News are a contradiction in terms to say the least.
If you really are lost as to what I am talking about, google the words, Fox News and Responsible Journalism.
This is just one more example of why Fox News is a problem. Giving any attention at all to this mans verbal diarhea was more the he deserved but because Fox likes to titilate, they put it on the air.
Argue with my opinion all you want, I am certainly only ONE person however its not just my opinion...there are people doing demonstrations against Fox news, its simply NOT the thinking persons news source unless your a blind folded, right wing Republican Fundie. I would NEVER expect anyone to simply substitute my thinking for their own, do some research, the net if FULL of information about what a disgrace Fox is, they are a joke.
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Jellyfish
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It seems odd to believe in the freedom of the press and then seek to censure it at the same time under the guise of responsible journalism. No matter which network you tune into, you will at some point run into a wall of bias � completely unbiased reporting is not humanly possible. FOX leans to the right, NPR to the left, and so on.
As a matter of fact, the First Amendment protects the freedom of speech of those whose speech might not be considered palatable, welcomed, or comfortable! So it does not matter how many smear merchants will call FOX all kinds of names; the rightwing fundies have a right to their TV network just like the leftwing loons, and anybody in between. Folks who enjoy standing in the Kool-Aid line of either political persuasion have just as much right to have a channel cater to their whims as the rest of the population. Considering how many channels we now have access to, it seems precious little to ask for.
Those who don�t appreciate the fare that is dished out have the freedom of choice and can change the channel. Those who enjoy it should get out the popcorn and kick up their heels. Those who are protesting FOX and would like to see its programming changed or completely dismantled, however, should make the time to become reacquainted with the civil rights of those who think differently from them.
We should thank our lucky stars that we do not live in a country where the only news is the one that is found fit for popular consumption by the ruling government and the only ones who have a right to speak out are the ones that tout the party line. Similarly, not a day should go by that we do not give thanks for being able to hotly dissent on virtually any and every issue, without running into the danger of having various respective news outlets shut off, just because a vociferous majority or minority demands it.
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Parakeet
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It seems odd to believe in the freedom of the press and then seek to censure it at the same time under the guise of responsible journalism. Its not really debating to purposely mis-represent what someone has said in order to "win" the debate. I don't believe in censorship, never said I did, never used the word, thats your own slanted opinion in order to undermine my own words. It smacks of someone who knows their arguments are LESS then reliable. Many people before me have had problems with Fox's accuracy. If you can't at least admit that, then you have blinders on and not much you say on the subject can be relied upon. I would NEVER want to live in a country where the media was dictated by the sitting president but if Bush had his way, that would be his next move. He has already taken away some of our constitutional rights, why not the freedom of the press next. Maybe you can think back to Hurricane Katrina...I was changing the channels to look at what the different channels were showing, I was amazed at the coverage Fox had, OR THE LACK THERE OF...it was pretty clear where their concerns were, it was NOT with the human suffering going on with OUR OWN AMERICAN CITIZENS.
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Jellyfish
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Of course my opinion is slanted! Good grief - that was the whole point of my post!! I never once claimed to be objective, but instead I call it the way I see it. If this makes you feel challenged to such an extent that you feel the need to denigrate me on a personal level, i.e. �smacks of someone who knows their arguments are LESS then reliable� and �you have blinders on and not much you say on the subject can be relied upon�, then perhaps it is best if I agree to strongly disagree with you on the topic at hand and let it go. I detest personal putdowns and attacks.
Anyone who will read my post without having a dog in the race will see that I know just as well as anybody else that FOX leans to the right. My point is that in today�s society this should be celebrated rather than scorned. At the end of the day, between life and death and heaven and hell, it matter so little whether FOX is leaning to the right, NPR to the left, and Telemundo is giving them all a run for the money. At the end of the day it is nothing but a blip on the radar screen.
Anybody who is looking for real news knows where to find it, and even those who will only rely on TV for their info will be able to mix and match and get a pretty good picture by watching a variety of channels. Those who don�t want to bother have the right to get a Kool-Aid refill.
BTW, may I remind you that freedom of speech is not being actively challenged by the right so much as by the left, which � with the up and coming changing of the guard in the White House after the 2008 elections � is a ground for grave concern?
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Parakeet
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YOu give yourself too much credit, you don't make me feel challeneged, in fact discussing issues with someone like you (for me) is a waste of time.
I am firm in my support of the Democratic party, while I do share some beliefs with the Repuplican party, I am a Democrat and always will be. AND I have to say I was raised in a Republican Fundamentalist family, my Father being a minister. It is my opinion that people who don't see problems with their party (either one) have a blind fold on.
I have no illusions that you can be swayed so therefore you have no effect on me.
In reality, I view Republicans and their beliefs as a danger to the United States and our freedoms. They undermine what they say the love about our country. BUT I know they will do their best to tear our country apart before they will EVER admit to being wrong.
In the end, I kind of feel sorry for people who hold to the party line (either party) and NOT think for themselves. The Democrats are wrong on some issues but I feel the Republicans are wrong on more.
I think its a silly thing to have someone who holds your views representing the civil rights forum because Republicans are NOTORIOUS for infringing upon the civil rights of the American people, not upholding them or defending them. AND once again, thats not just my opinion, thats histories judgement of your party.
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BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
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BellaOnline Editor Chipmunk
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This is one man's opinion. I believe he was referring to Africans - not African-Americans. We tend to read into articles such as this one. Perhaps in Africa, his statements are true where the white population may have more opportunities to receive a higher education than their black counterparts.
I do not believe this article is about people in countries such as the U.S.
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Jellyfish
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Jellyfish
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Good point!
From my reading of the article he is referring to "colored people" in general without making the distinction of a country. Similarly, he appears to suggest that intelligence is an organic feature rather than an expandable commodity, but I might have misunderstood that.
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Koala
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Koala
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To me, this is just another sign that as a society in general more and more people are suffering from �diarrhea of the mouth� where they believe their drivel is ambrosia that must be spread.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVED this quote!!! Thank you so much for it!!!!
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Jellyfish
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LOL, you are quite welcome! 
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Newbie
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Oh god you must be a Dem. Or is it a "Dum". Fox news is the ONLY station that reflects morals. So if you had any at all you would watch.
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Newbie
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And I am tired of black people reminding me that they are black.
I don't see skin color, I have friends that are African American.
Why do blacks have to remind us of their skin color? If you ask me THEY are the ones keeping racism alive today! And if science has proven an extra helix of DNA in white people......facts are facts.
Again does God himself love a person less? I think not. While we are here on earth it all comes down to how a person applies his knowledge anyways.
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Newbie
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And so are you! ( a joke)
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Newbie
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I think the point is that Fox simply aired an interview with a controversial character. As if ABC and their ilk haven't done the same thing. As a matter of fact I do remember ABC making mention of the snafu caused by his remarks, as Fox only comes in for part of the day here. (too cheap to pay for cable instead of feeding kids)
If I had to rely on NPR and ABC for my news of the world I would one very sorry, slanted and limited person. I notice that NPR and ABC aren't reporting terribly much on the flooding and levy breaks in the midwest, and there is no one sitting on their porch shouting "where's the gov't?" Where is all the news about some Idahoan potato farmer looting expensive tennis shoes? The right wing reported on Katrina catching every possible racial angle, when it was quite simply a natural disaster. Making it race related was done by the media and those in the black community that are racist. It made me sick and I wanted nothing to do with 'rebuilding New Orleans" at that point.
To report without an obviously defined agenda...wouldn't that be something?
Orthodox homeschooling mom to 7, one with Rett Syndrome
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Parakeet
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This is especially for those who seems to have a "color issue". Why not stop by and learn how to plant bulbs and maybe that'll take that edge off of being so hostile? Let us learn to respect and allow the differences we all have and learn to agree to disagree. Gardening can be soooooo therapeutic. With that being noted, we'll deal in facts:
"I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....
*If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're 'exotic, different.'
but if you grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.
*If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
but name your kids Willow, Trig, and Track; you're a maverick.
*Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
but attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.
*If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.
but if your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council, 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, and 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.
*If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.
yet if you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
*If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
yet if, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, (though its not your fault), you're very responsible.
*If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.
but if your husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer now.
Its not about race but the quality of the people. Let's be smart individuals and recognize and acknowledge and give people their proper credit. No matter what color.
Kimberly C. Cannon, Former Bulb Gardening Editor
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BellaOnline Editor Elephant
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BellaOnline Editor Elephant
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I took a look at the first post about a DNA report? It's hard to believe a white person vs a black is smarter. I've not personally seen this. I have a multi-racial circle of friends. However, what I am seeing is that the other races are getting tired of seeing blacks making an issue about their skin color. That ship has kind of come and gone. I think in a post in the clairvoyant forum I felt the african american had a window of sorts where the media, specifically, focusses on the black american. It had to do w/money though more than them. After this window of about 10 years, it's business as usual. Other races will be featured. I felt they were in the 6 of the 10 years....
It's going to come down to a point, if it hasn't already, that they are going to have to face the facts that they have two arms and two legs like anyone else. The getting a hands up theory is backfiring. After all is said and done, if you keep griping or engage in constant negative feedback no president, black, white or any other color is going to help. Hard work - any color, focuss (whatever it is) is what makes change. If all you focus on is griping, in the end that in a hand bag is all you will have to show for it.
____________________________________
Elleise
Clairvoyance Editor
BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!
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Newbie
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Actually, isn't FOX the only station really covering the ACORN indictment?? (i.e. things like registering dead people to vote etc..etc..) And I haven't seen anything on television anywhere regarding Corsi's detainment in Kenya. And I still am not seeing what I want to see on that damned "Obama Youth" video which is basicially an apology from his camp on how utterly STUPID it was. What would have we all done if McCain had put a vid like that on his site??? That scared the [censored] out of the constitutional law class I teach. And finally, I worked with a young mother (white) years ago who had just had a baby (father was black, baby very obviously Af/Am) and she named him "Simian." Yes it's true. She had NO clue. I like to have died and no I did not tell her. On that note, I need a glass of wine!
I personally think that the four primary candidates are just a tad spooky right now . . . maybe it's just October.
Oh and just because Sylvia mentioned censorship...which bugs the [censored] out of me.....I think Random House was really, really sorry for refusing to publish "Jewell of Medina" because they were afraid of "inciting" radical Muslim extremists to violence. I enjoy your section by the way Sylvia!
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Gecko
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Gecko
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This is especially for those who seems to have a "color issue". Why not stop by and learn how to plant bulbs and maybe that'll take that edge off of being so hostile? Let us learn to respect and allow the differences we all have and learn to agree to disagree. Gardening can be soooooo therapeutic. With that being noted, we'll deal in facts:
"I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....
*If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you're 'exotic, different.'
but if you grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, a quintessential American story.
*If your name is Barack you're a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.
but name your kids Willow, Trig, and Track; you're a maverick.
*Graduate from Harvard law School and you are unstable.
but attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you're well grounded.
*If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate's Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran's Affairs committees, you don't have any real leadership experience.
but if your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council, 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, and 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you're qualified to become the country's second highest ranking executive.
*If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 beautiful daughters, all within Protestant churches, you're not a real Christian.
yet if you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you're a Christian.
*If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.
yet if, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state's school system while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, (though its not your fault), you're very responsible.
*If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family's values don't represent America's.
but if your husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn't register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.
OK, much clearer now.
Its not about race but the quality of the people. Let's be smart individuals and recognize and acknowledge and give people their proper credit. No matter what color. Kim - I love this! You are awesome!
Barbara Sharpe
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 173
Jellyfish
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Jellyfish
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 173 |
Whites smarter than Blacks?
It takes a wise man to separate intellectual debate from humanistic heresy. Why do we even go there in the first place? Boredom or prejudice?
This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard of late.
Last edited by GoodMorningSunshine; 03/23/11 02:46 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 10 |
As a multiracial individual I have tried to see this discussion in a logical fashion. The logical response to ignorance is education, but that doesn't always work because prejudice isn't always logical.
Some of the most prejudice people I have met have been those that fight for freedom and some of the most open-minded people I have met have loved the confederate flag.
I think it's time for us to stop looking at symbols and to start looking at people. If we begin to rest on our laurels then we may become hypocrites and not even know it.
Communicate, communicate, communicate...
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 383
BellaOnline Editor Shark
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BellaOnline Editor Shark
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 383 |
I honestly think that the title of this thread is offensive. If the man who came up with this garbage is white then he has just proved the inaccuracy of his case, as he is clearly an idiot.
Last edited by Eileen Brit TV; 03/30/11 03:55 AM.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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BellaOnline Editor Shark
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BellaOnline Editor Shark
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 383 |
�If you could detect it pre-natally, could a woman abort a child who was homosexual? I said they should have the right to, because most women want to have grandchildren, period. We can�t do it, but it�s common sense. Anyways,� he says, shaking his head wearily, �it was a bad day when that headline hit. I was just arguing for the freedom of women to try and have the children they want, not what is right or wrong.�
The above quote is from the same guy, James Watson, who along with Crick, discovered the double helix DNA molecule. Obviously a dedicated scientist - but that doesn't stop him shouting his mouth off about things he doesn't understand. He's in his 80s and it shows.
The fact that Fox News picked out the white clever, blacks not, drivel just shows their own bias, because if you look up the original 2007 article, in the London Sunday Times,you'll see he said a whole heap of inflammatory nonsense. For example - you should genetically modify females so that all girls are pretty. He is obviously focused on science to the detriment of sociology, ethics and common sense.
He also said this - always have a good story, and never be the brightest in the room. Looks like he's got both of those covered!!!
Last edited by Eileen Brit TV; 03/30/11 03:58 AM.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 91
Amoeba
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Amoeba
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 91 |
I honestly think that the title of this thread is offensive. If the man who came up with this garbage is white then he has just proved the inaccuracy of his case, as he is clearly an idiot. Ha ha ha ha -- I agree totally! with Eileen that is (NOT the title)
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 383
BellaOnline Editor Shark
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BellaOnline Editor Shark
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 383 |
Thank you m'dear! I know it's black (!) humour, but when I re-read my post, I must admit it made me laugh too. But then - what can you do in the face of bigotry and ignorance? Have a good laugh - oh, after making sure you know what you're talking about, which is why I went back to the original article (and this thread is two years old) to see what the old man was blathering on about. He made world history when he discovered the shape of the DNA molecule - though there was some controversy about who did it first. That doesn't make him an expert on anthropology, the nature of human intelligence and social dynamics/ethics. If you read the article he is clearly a boffin - clever in his own field but beyond that racist, homophobic and sexist. Nice! Also so much of social interaction depends on politics and quite honestly, prevalent fashion. Maybe he needs to keep up with the times. (As well as the Times!!). Yo, innit!!! 
Last edited by Eileen Brit TV; 03/30/11 02:09 PM.
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