BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Odd things you've heard people say regarding kids

I guess my feelings over the past few days about what has been discussed on this board made me feel slightly uncomfortable. I'm glad that others have finally solidified what I could not put my finger on.

It was the feeling that I've had many a time in my life, when I felt as if I was trying to be converted to religion. For those of you that may or may not know, I am an atheist. Thusly, I am VERY sensitive to such "being preached-at" feelings (when it comes to religion), even if the person saying such things is unaware of how he/she is coming across. Such people that are, for example, pro-religion/pro-child may not SEEM as if they are being evangelistic, but the general tone/feeling that comes across is that they ARE being evangelistic when speaking about being pro-religion/pro-child, because of the general nature of the forum (no-religion/no-child).

These topics that I mention are probably the most obvious examples of topics where people who are, in these cases, anti-god/theism or pro-no child, are in the very vocal minority. They are preached at every day, by friends, family, co-workers, television program, social worker programs, news outlets, churches, governmental agencies -- ie society in general, directly or indirectly, because we are such a minority with such an "extreme" POV. With the topic of children, most everyone who does not want a child is bingo'ed, male or female, young or old, married or un-married, involved in a relationship or not, incessantly. With those who do not believe in god or gods, and have no such desire to do so, we tend to drift into forums where those people can vent as they are constantly, directly and indirectly, attacked and beaten across the head day in and day out. We need a forum to vent, to try to keep our heads about ourselves.

The methods and tactics of the pro-child peoples and the pro-child peoples, are, in general, exactly the same. In describing how it feels to be so "enlightened" to be pro-whatever, they can not help but to come across as "holier-than-thou", making the people that are on the other side feel, as has been stated, "annoyed," at best, and "insulted," at worst. It is really, really hard to try to make the pro-religious, pro-child peoples feel the "oppression" that we feel, being in such a pro-religion/pro-child world.

I, being both atheist and CF, have more experience than most feeling on the "short end" of society's prevalent belief systems. So I doubly feel the "double" minority impact.

Griz, I realize that you are in a tough position. Unless you have lived the "child-free" attitude, with people knowing your stance and constantly being asked "Why?" "Here's why you don't know what you are missing out on..." "I'm sorry..." and so on, you can't understand what it truly feels to be on the outside. It ain't pretty.

I'm a guy and married to a lovely CF woman -- yet I've been hit by what these women go through to a MUCH smaller degree. Guys are not immune, either. I have to admire how these women put up and survive. Part of their survival mechanism is to vent here, amongst friends of like minds. That is just the way things are.

I realize this may not make it easier to understand, but that is how I see things here.

First of all, myrabeth, I think you're AWESOME.

Second of all, bonsai, I wish you'd been one of my teachers. You're AWESOME.

I said I would have 19 kids. My whole post was facetious. Myrabeth, I also felt like the post I was responding to was one of those "join us!" type messages. I HATE those! I hate feeling like someone is lecturing to me that I should "see the light" or whatever.

Regardless of what Griz meant, that is how I felt.

I am also not anti-parent. I am, however, anti-idiot. And unfortunately, a lot of the parents I know are idiots. Not all. And they're not idiots because they're parents. Although, I think parenting has made the idiocy in some of them more apparent. Many of my friends who are parents, for example, didn't have their own life in control before they got pregnant, so now that's glaringly obvious.

However, my sister, who was always the biggest flake in the world, suddenly seems smarter. I don't think her child has MADE her smarter, but now that she actually has to use her brain she's, well, using her brain. She's also the best parent I know. However, she makes sure that she has her own personal time, and I think she does balance things as well as she can. I don't think she's changed very much from the person she was before, but she knows her limits. She doesn't "have it all." I know she regrets not getting her degree and now she'll probably never be able to finish the few credits she has left. They just don't have enough money now.

I have other friends who, once getting pregnant, suddenly forget that they ever had another life. And they surprise me when they demonstrate poor parenting skills, because I know they were raised differently. Then again, I have friends who really surprise me at what good parents they are.

Point is, I know parents who make it work and I know parents who have their heads up their butts. Unfortunately, the latter category seems to be growing. You know, the people who are too engrossed in their phone conversation while they're filling out a registration form to notice that their toddler is climbing down the stairs, and then when they notice they start screaming at the child.

Yeah. I see waaaay more of those than the people who have their lives together.

I said I would have 19 kids. My whole post was facetious.

Ooops! Missed that one.

I'll go back and retract that part of my post. Sorry about that, Griz.

Yeah, I wanted to beat the Duggars or whatever their names are. They have what, 17 now?

This all seems to have arrived at a good place, and for that I'm glad. I was upset that my posts were being misinterpreted but I understand now that you have your reasons for reacting the way you did. I still, and always will, respect and defend your freedom to choose to remain CF, but I did feel a bit hurt when I also misinterpreted (or at least I hope I did) something someone here said as condescending to the choice of being a parent in general. My immediate reaction was to state a counterpoint to defend MY choice and the whole thing just kinda blew up in my face.

Again, I restate, I did NOT mean anything in a disrespectful manner, nor was I trying to convince anyone to see things my way, I was just striving to strike a balance between the merits of being a GOOD parent and the merits of being a successful, happy CF person, and the ability that anyone with a good head on their shoulder has to fulfill themselves completely as a person simply by being hard-working and true to their individual vision and their life plan.

It's interesting to me, that such personal choices as whether to have children and whether to practice religion, which have NO EFFECT ON ANYONE ELSE but the person making those choices, are the ones that seem to provoke the most preaching, isn't it?

For instance, if people exhibit poor parenting skills, in most cases does anyone preach to them about it, telling them to be a better parent? Probably not. But that affects other people directly, and in the long run, can negatively affect the child's development.

But we, by choosing not to parent, are targets for parents who think we are "Missing Out" and need to be preached to and brought to "See The Light". Hmmm....but if we're never parents, who is that harming? Nobody I can see....

Just thought that was interesting.

Cindy

Man, Griz, I want to work in Mexico now!
I have these stupid irrelevant staff meetings twice a week after school you have the twice a month!
I work from about 8 - 4 (at least, sometimes 4:30) because some of the parents who are supposed to pick up the kids at 3:30 come late! And then I give the room a quick tidy. If I have one of these irrelevant meetings which I usually have twice a week then I can be there till 4 or even 5pm.
The holidays are great though!
This school year just gone was a horribly busy one for me, I had to do this extra training cos I am from a different country than where I am living and then the government came to check my school which they do every three years and everyone gets STRESSED! and we have someone coming to watch us teach and report back to the boss about every three months minimum (which I hate!)
I work in the United Kingdom (England) in a State (public) school and I work with 3 and 4 year olds.
Even at that young age we have to try to teach them the alphabet, numbers to 10 or at least 5 and writing their name etc.
I miss childcare only jobs I used to have where they just played!
ANYWAY!
Personally, I am happy if people want to become parents and do so I am happy for them. I just wish that THEY could be happy for ME that I choose differently rather than thinking and saying I am selfish or whatever.
Some parents do a better job than others. I had a lousy one coming back on the plane from my holiday but I also had some lovely ones who moved their children onto their laps so that I could have a seat on the bus.
Some kids are better behaved than others, as are some teenagers.
I have been to Tiajuana by the way! but it was a LONG time ago.

Man, Griz, I want to work in Mexico now!
I have these stupid irrelevant staff meetings twice a week after school you have the twice a month!
I work from about 8 - 4 (at least, sometimes 4:30) because some of the parents who are supposed to pick up the kids at 3:30 come late! And then I give the room a quick tidy. If I have one of these irrelevant meetings which I usually have twice a week then I can be there till 4 or even 5pm.
The holidays are great though!
This school year just gone was a horribly busy one for me, I had to do this extra training cos I am from a different country than where I am living and then the government came to check my school which they do every three years and everyone gets STRESSED! and we have someone coming to watch us teach and report back to the boss about every three months minimum (which I hate!)
I work in the United Kingdom (England) in a State (public) school and I work with 3 and 4 year olds.
Even at that young age we have to try to teach them the alphabet, numbers to 10 or at least 5 and writing their name etc.
I miss childcare only jobs I used to have where they just played!
ANYWAY!
Personally, I am happy if people want to become parents and do so I am happy for them. I just wish that THEY could be happy for ME that I choose differently rather than thinking and saying I am selfish or whatever.
Some parents do a better job than others. I had a lousy one coming back on the plane from my holiday but I also had some lovely ones who moved their children onto their laps so that I could have a seat on the bus.
Some kids are better behaved than others, as are some teenagers.
I have been to Tiajuana by the way! but it was a LONG time ago.

Sorry, folks - it looks like I contributed to the start of the storm. I have been offline for a few days, but this has been an interesting conversation. I don't think FeeBeeGee's comment is overly negative toward parents at all. Most women can't have it all. If you have it all, something is going to suffer. There just aren't enough hours in the day. Period. And, it might look like someone at work is pulling it all off, but you often learn later that something wasn't working - the marriage, the kids, or the person is faltering on the job. We don't know what the quality of someone's relationship is with their kids or their spouse. This isn't a criticism, I certainly couldn't juggle a household, marriage, kids, a career, hobbies while obtaining an education.

A good friend of mine "has it all" and is also taking anti-anxiety medication because she is drowning under all of her responsibilities. I feel sorry for her, but this was her choice, and she miscalculated the diffulty of juggling a marriage/kids/full-time career.

This is a forum where people can be honest about what is involved in parenting, and I think that's great. We don't need to see the other side of the coin - it's everywhere we go. The American Dream is an illusion, and it hurts people. Honesty is what we need right now, not commercials about how wonderful it is to do everything. People that aren't equipped to "do it all" are pressured and get themselves into difficult lives, and it isn't right.

Very well put. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Over and over we find out that people trying to have it all are hiding something and are not being completely honest with us. I've seen it happen so many times with my own eyes that I just don't believe the facade anymore. A few people might be able to pull it off, but the vast majority can't. When they find out too late that they can't do it, they're stuck, and the consequences with their health or mental state hurt more than just them (their children).

People who do pull it off often have resources to draw on or support to help them, like an unusually flexible workplace, involved extended family, or they are independently wealthy. I've been asking myself what is the good of someone trying to achieve what "the have it all's" have achieved, when they very well may have advantages or support others don't have?

To think our eyes are not open to the fact that "it really can be done" and/or that we're here for a place to rant about how much we look down on parents for whatever reason is totally missing the point, from my perspective.

I'm relieved the anti-parent accusation was removed, because that is very far from the truth for me. I'm an aunt, and a godparent, not to mention babysat many years and worked in daycare. I have considered parenthood my whole life. I hardly think that makes me against parents. Sure, I think some parents suck, but so do parents!

I'm just trying to get honest answers here, and at this point, I trust the knowledgeable and honest CF who are willing to tell it like it is, more than most of the parents I know (and even the ones I love). Some parents are honest, but I've seen so many in denial or who seem to have ulterior motives in their raving recommendations about their lifestyle. My own mom is one of those "It's so easssssy" people, which cracked me up in that other thread.

I was there mom, and it was not!!