BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Aboutthe power of the mind

I wanted to hear from some Athiests regarding what they think about what is often told us by some of the other groups here concerning how we can change our life situations by thought.

I'm probably not expressing this very well, so I'll give you a few examples of the things I have been told:

1)That everything that happens to us is what we have attracted to us - that we create our own reality.

2) That if bad things happen in our lives, or to our family, or country, it is because it is 'karma' - and we are just getting back what we, or our family, or country has given out - even as long as 100 years ago.

3) That we can heal ourselves by the power of thought, even to the point of growing new bones, or repairing damaged tissue; - and that illness and disease is really only a creation of our minds.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on these things. (I am asking this question here because I know I will receive answers based on logic)

Patience.

As far as I can answer this from a Buddhist view-stance... your point number 1) is linked Karmically to your point number 2) but you must remember that this applies to all the good stuff too....Life isn't all 'bad' just as it isn't all 'good'. It is what it is, and our own power of appraisal and perception helps us with how we actually deal with all the 'stuff'....

From a personal view-stance, point three is a very definite possibility. Although I have not experienced the miracle of healing from a terminal illness through the Power of Mind alone, personally, I know and have read verifiable accounts of such instances, and I do believe for my part that the fundamental basis of any healing - physical, mental or Spiritual - is triggered and controlled, and even originates and is orchestrated by how we view it through our Mind.
The Mind is an untapped source of constant interest and how it works, and the effect it can have on the individual is breath-taking. I have seen transformations in people through their own attitudes and perceptions which have never ceased to amaze me.
From my standpoint, if the mind is strong, focussed and determined - anything is possible.

Yes it's true. Third prinsiple of Hermetics- All is vibration. You are vibration.

Every time I hear this, I want to whack the speaker with a bat and say "Don't blame me, you created this reality."



Actions have consequences, good and bad. To call this "Karma" adds an unneccesary layer of mysticism onto things. furthermore, it smacks of blaming the victim. Most ethicists I've read reject collective punishment. I waould apply this to intergenerational punishment as well.



The conscious mind can influence or control the nervous, muscular, digestive, respiratory, and endocrine systems, and the placebo effect demonstrates that the mind plays at least some role in healing. However I know of no evidence of mentally regenerating limbs.



That's a core belief of Scientology (at least until you pay to get into the OT levels) but I think that Pasteur did a pretty good job of disproving it.

You misunderstand then. Karma is not judgemental. There is nothing Mystical or pseudo-spiritual about it. In fact, it is merely a consequential process. Judgement is a Christian, Deistic concept, but in Buddhism, there is no aspect of judgement or retribution. None at all.




There is no mention in the initial question of regenerating limbs. However, I do know for a fact that a person's mental state is extremely influential regarding the rate and extent of healing. Even the most advanced medics will now admit that if a patient can be convinced to regard their illness, malady or ailment with a positive attitude, and affirmation, it has certainly been recorded in some trials that the healing process was greatly improved in these individuals.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Karma (as the cause of actions in the physical world) more of a Hindu concept, wherein it is very judgemental, determining how you'll be reincarnated next? I always though the Buddhist karma was more about whether you got off the wheel or not. Yes, I know there are multiple schools of Buddhism, with varying degrees of mysticism. But if karma concerns the soul and the reincarnation thereof, it is most definately a mystical/supernatural concept.



True, it talked about regrowing bones and tissue. But claiming that bones and tissue heal is a rather trivial thing, since they do so independently of the mind.

Been watching the secret have you? I got a secret for you, those con artists are getting rich because people buy this stuff.

1)That everything that happens to us is what we have attracted to us - that we create our own reality.
hogwash! This may be mildly true to the extent that if you go to school you can get a better job or if you don't just st eat junk food you will be healthier. But your point number one says "everything that happens to us". The concept is ridiculous and not at all supported by evidence. I do not dispute the power of positive thought, but drop the mystical [censored], if somebody breaks into my house murders a loved one, I did nothing to cause this.

2) That if bad things happen in our lives, or to our family, or country, it is because it is 'karma' - and we are just getting back what we, or our family, or country has given out - even as long as 100 years ago.
My argument from above applies.

3) That we can heal ourselves by the power of thought, even to the point of growing new bones, or repairing damaged tissue; - and that illness and disease is really only a creation of our minds.
Perhaps relaxation can prevent stress which in turn can make us feel better but thinking you can cure lung cancer by thinking you can cure lung cancer, please. Grow new bones? I think science may get us there but I defy you to do it on you own.

James Randi, you've got your work cut out for you.

I agree with Nechochwen and Skeptic. I don't see illness and disease as mere creations of the human mind any more than I think people who are killed in floods, hurricanes, wars, or murders chose their own death. In fact, claiming that attraction and karma are 100% operative can lead to some pretty twisted rationalizations that allow people to ignore the sufferings of others and even victimize them with impunity.

There is something behind the concepts of attraction, karma, and self-healing, but it's not magic, and it's not the force. I prefer to look at these phenomena in more concrete, sensible terms. The theory of attraction basically breaks down to having the confidence to appear attractive to others, who may then be more willing to invest in you, and the courage to take greater risks, which may then result in higher payoffs (or higher failures). But it's not a magic bullet. People can't always alter their environment. I don't think it's fair or accurate to give 100% of the credit for commercial successes purely to the C.E.O. any more than it's fair or accurate to blame victims of genocide in Africa for their reality.

Likewise, I see karma as a social and psychological phenomena, not a metaphysical one. If you're respectful and kind to someone even when you (or they) are stressed out, then chances are that they will think kindly of you and will be that much more likely to treat you similarly. There's no magic to this. It's just that when people are happy and are treated well, they feel better and are therefore generally nicer to others. There's also something to be said for the reverse: if you're mean and nasty, chances are that the only people who will choose to spend time with you are two-faced opportunists, which is a sort of karma of its own.

And finally, self-healing through personal prayer (not assisted prayer, which has been proved useless if not detrimental), meditation, or pure force of will isn't too far removed from healing that occurs when someone is given the time and opportunity to rest and recover in peace with minimal stress. Meditation, prayer, and rest decrease stress levels, which means that the body can spend more of its energy on healing and less on dealing with stress and the issues associated with it. Self-healing can only go so far, however, given the imperfections of the human body. I would very seriously balk at the suggestion that homeostasis could be maintained eternally and that humans only become unhealthy and die because they want to.

I dont think it is good to blame the victom! I do think that thinking positively attarcts positive things. as for healing...pychological and mentalily conected problem I think can be helped by prayer, meditation, yoga...whatever. If you have high blood pressure due to stress, and PTSD then this may help but you cant eat lots and lots of sugar and carbs and pray your blood sugar down!!! although I have tried!!!

If used in the proper context and with medical professional its a help but when takeing out of context and no medical support it can cause major damage or death!!!

Hope i said this right!!!

I thank you all for these comments, especially Ali, Skeptic and Nechochwen.

You have confirmed what I also believe. But I had doubts, and these doubts have bothered me.

I have had 'spiritual' people tell me that my spinal disease is self-created and that 'new, healthy joints' can be achieved by 'positive thought' and that the reason why I have this condition is because I either 'attracted it' - 'earned it' - or 'created it' by my own negative thoughts. I can 'change' it by changing my thinking.

This signature quote of Alexandra's is an example of what I am talking about and asking - IS THIS TRUE?

"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts; with our thoughts, we make the world."

I have been told by some of these people that children who are sexually abused (even when they are only babies) have 'created their own reality' which made this abuse possible - or that they 'attracted' their abusers, or that they 'set the stage' for this because of their past-life karma.

Well, I can tell you that this is exactly the type of 'talk' that is very likely to send them off to hang themselves, or slash their wrists, or suicide in some other way. They have enough guilt as it is, without being told that they brought the whole thing on themselves, and even 'deserved' it, or were in some way responsible for what happened to them. This makes me FURIOUS! Yet I keep getting told it by spiritual people!

This is a HUGE trigger for me, because I am one of these abused people who has fought for 65 years to stay alive, - to BELIEVE that it wasn't MY fault, and to rediscover some self respect. This type of 'spirituality' is a KILLER!

It seems that in this day and age, there are a lot of people out there who want to transfer the responsibility for the atrocities of this world onto the victims. 'If you got hurt, then you asked for it'!

Our 'Civil Liberties' groups here in Australia are so concerned about the 'poor criminals' but the victims of crime are forgotten and have to fight to get any support or assistance. Usually they don't, or have to pay for it while the person who hurt them or destroyed their lives gets everything they need.

To give you an example of this imbalance, let me share with you a factual case. A man who tried to break into someone's home through the roof, (I'm sure he wasn't paying a friendly visit!)had the misfortune (too bad he didn't break his neck instead of his leg) fell and successfully sued the owner of the house for his injuries! And because he had complications, the settlement was around 500,000 dollars.

What punishment did HE get? Well, it seems that crime pays, because he got fined 2,000 dollars and a warning!!!

"Well", said some of the 'do-gooders' - "he was the one who was injured, and how do we know he was going to rob the people?" WHAT???!!!!

"People like that are sick" - says the 'do-gooder' "and they need rehabilitation and compassion."

What about their victims? Many victims are also beaten up and raped during the home invasions. If they fight back and injure the intruder, THEY are prosecuted for assault!!

The same happens with rape victims. THEY created the reality which caused them to be raped. The 'poor rapist' was 'attracted' to them because of their 'thoughts' - so one doesn't have to be Albert Einstein to figure out that the VICTIM is always the one responsible.

What a load of HOGWASH!

I put these questions up here to hear the opinions of clear-thinking people, after being told these things on another forum.
According to one lady, the atrocities suffered by my countrymen in WW2 were because our ancestors mistreated our Aborigines over 100 years ago! We just got back what we deserved! Trouble is, the ones who 'got it back' had nothing to do with what happened to the Aborigines!

It seems that we, especially the USA, were responsible for WW2 also - because our countries treated the Germans and Japanese so badly in earlier years.

I find comments like that worse than insulting, and I wanted to hear if others thought so too.

Thank you for your wise words.

Patience.