BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Things you don't have the heart to say...

...and I see that I haven't really followed the point of the original post but that's what went through my mind as I was reading.

Well lala, this section is for Married no kids. So it is a clique. It's a place for use to get things off our chest. The label is how the site is broken down. I think you're lucky to not have had trouble or seen anyone have trouble from others with this issue. Unfortunately, many of us have. For about 5 years after I got married I was constantly challenged about my decision. Sometimes friendly, sometimes not. So we come here to share these views and let out some steam. this way we don't hurt anyone, we're just putting our thoughts out there to see who feels like we do.

My tongue tends to bleed when children constantly interrupt conversations. Not all kids, but when they do, I want to ask the parent, or tell the kid, ever heard of manners? That was never tolerated in my house, and thankfully my sister instills the same respect in her children. I understand when they're tiny, but not when they are over 7. But then I fall back on, I don't have kids, who am I to say.

But don't you think hearing some of these things is a natural consequence of choosing to be friends with someone who has a baby?

They just made a different choice than you did. Why should you impose your view on the new mom? I understand that you didn't do that, and I think it's GREAT.

Also, is there a reason why you're against paid maternity leave? Many women put their babies in daycare because they feel pressured to bring home a paycheck...not because it's what's best for the child.

Some would argue that we're currently paying the price for kids not being raised at home that first year...

I guess what I'm wondering is why you would be against a new mom being able to raise her child with pay (like in Canada) and then being able to step back into the workforce. This type of policy, by the way, also improves breastfeeding rates which helps all citizens in the long run...

And can you really compare a child to getting a new puppy?

Awhile back, several women on another message board I visit were trashing some guy because he didn't want to date a woman who had children. I stayed out of it at the time, but kind of wished I'd have entered the discussion, as I would never have dated a man with children. At least he was honest and she was free to find someone who wanted to participate in parenting with her.

"we're just putting our thoughts out there to see who feels like we do."

I like that, and it's a good way to do it. I was just surprised that it was such an issue for anyone. It really shouldn't be. And I think it's an awful thing that anyone has to feel pressured about it. I have friends who don't want kids, and I think that's great.... for them. I don't have kids... yet, but one day I hope/plan to. And neither one of us should have to feel any pressure, guilt, or anything negative about our decisions. They respect mine, and vica versa.

For those of you who are challanged about your decision, I feel for you. I wouldn't want that for my decision, and being someone who does want kids, I have been looked at like "OH MY GOODNESS! YOU ACTUALLY WANT KIDS! YOU
RE CRAZY!" So, I do know what it's like, I just never knew the extent of it on your side.

As far as the clique thing, I understand the purpose of this particular forum, but I still don't really like labels (for any reason really) that seems to distance people who simply just have a different way of life.

I'm a firm believer that if you can't afford to care for a child then you shouldn't have one. Paid maternity leave would cease to be an issue if someone like me could get paid leave to care for an aging parent, sick animal/family member, or other necessary reason. But the truth is that those aren't options for us. We don't have that type of thing available to us, yet new mothers get a boatload of paid time off. And then what? When they eventually come back to work they're leaving early to take the kid to the doctor, soccer games, birthday parties, etc? And who picks up the slack? Oh yeah, those people who get no paid leave time because they choose not to have kids. We'd also be the ones 'volunteered' to work holidays because "Jane has a family," never mind the fact that *I* have a family, a rather large one, but since none of my family members are children it doesn't count.

So yeah, a lot of us take issue with maternity leave, child tax credits and other biased advantages that have no CF counterpart to keep things balanced. I don't think it's all that strange considering we pay out the nose in taxes which goes to schools we don't use, child tax credits we'll never see and other things we'll never benefit from. By all rights I have 13 dependents I should be able to claim on my taxes. They're expensive! We spend a lot of money to keep them cared for, fed, well-adjusted, well-behaved, etc, but I see no end of the year tax benefits because I made a choice to take in and care for all these animals. I don't see why anyone else should get a tax break because they made a similar choice in life.

I agree with you FCL. And to compare us to canada, is a little ridiculous, don't they pay up to 40% in taxes? I can guarantee, I'll go to jail for tax evasion before that happens. Especially since I'm paying high property taxes to pay for football fields, not necessarily education. I don't mind paying if its for helping children become well educated and to help them become better society members. So they like to tell us, but I don't like paying into funds that have no benefit to me in any way. Someone in an earlier post said, "you can't have it all". You, as an individual, have to make tough choices. I've made mine. Leave me out of it.

I agree, but I also think moms should have the right to have leave (even if it's unpaid) so they can be home with their children.

I was a "career woman" who was very driven. When I did think about staying home rather than putting my infant in daycare, I thought there was no way we would make it without my income. He went into daycare at 4 months.

My son was in the daycare setting from 8 until 5 everyday. Sometimes longer. I brought my infant home, fed him, bathed him, and he went to sleep. I barely interacted with my child during his first year of life.

Daycare does not equal being home with a parent, and I hate to see women who have careers putting their children in childcare because they can't afford to give up their income.

I was a teacher so I only made about $35,000 a year. It was a bit easier for me, but if I had been a doctor or a lawyer, I probably couldn't have justified the loss of the income. Of course in that situation, I could have hired a nanny, but my child still would have been cared for by someone else...

Fast forward to my current situation, I've been home for 3.5 years now and am a freelance writer (just getting started). I also have tutored a bit and am working to get a homeschool consulting business off the ground. I am a consultant for two companies which also brings in a bit of extra money.

My children are being raised by their parents. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I pulled my son out of daycare at 15 months and I know it was the best decision I've ever made.

So my point is that children are paying the price because so many women feel that they can't afford to give up that second income. Even worse, there are women working at McDonald's or other minimum wage jobs while their little ones are in daycare. After paying for childcare, they're bringing home almost nothing.

In my opinion, daycare has HUGE costs to society in the long run...Society would benefit in many ways from more moms being able to stay home with their infants and toddlers. Even the child-free, in my opinion, would benefit.

Jan

Jan, why don't you share with us some of those many benefits you feel we would reap? I would be very interested in hearing them, as I can't think of one!

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO RAISE A KID, DON'T HAVE ONE

Why is that so difficult to comprehend? I don't care the lady at McDonald's couldn't keep her legs shut; not my problem.

I am sick and tired of people not taking responsibility for their own decisions and choices in life. They screw up and then expect everyone else to help them out of the mess they've gotten themselves into. How many more lazy free-loading people can I continue to carry on my back? Who the hel l is going to work and make the money when all these baby-making machines are at home crying for someone to put food in the mouths, clothes on the backs and roofs over the heads of children they brought into this world?

Take responsibility for your own choices d ammit, and stop depending on the sweat and labor of others to support them.

Fire [b]

I dont have kids, and I may not have them becuase I just dont feel the urge but I cant call myself childfree becuase I just dont understand a lot of the philosophy. I cant for the life of me understand why anyone would want a child to suffer. If you talk about removing paid maternity leave or support or child tax cuts you are hurting the children, not the parents that you dont like becuase they made a different decision from you and whom you judge every bit as harshly as they judge you. It does not matter whether or not you like kids, kids are human beings and depend on the support of their elders, do you really want children to starve, become criminals and live in poverty because as you so elegantly put it: "the lady in McDonalds just couldnt keep her legs shut"? Poverty is a major issue in the united states and it has far reaching issues throughout society that effect even the elite childfree that try to live in their little bubble world. I adore animals and I have three dogs and three cats. I support laws that protect animals. However, I cannot understand how if you love and care for animals who are helpless and dependent, how you can have no symapthy for other helpless dependent creatures, babies and small children. Also if you are under the illusion that it costs as much to raise a child as a pet you are sorely mistaken. I dont think moms should be able to take limitless time for maternity leave, but I believe that their should be paid paternity/maternity leave as well as paid time ot care for an elderly parent or ill spouse. I also believe that thier should be free national day care as there is in many countries. Just because these services exist does not mean you have to run out and get pregnant, it just makes that option easier for those people who want children every bit as much you dont want them. If people want to stay home with their children, fine and excellent. I definitely would never even consider having kids if I couldnt stay home, I probably wouldnt have kids either way. I wouldnt expect to be supported as I would want to stay home indefinitely but I certainly think moms should have the option to return to work. Not everyone wants to live the exact same life style. Perhaps if you we were not all so judgemental of others choices they would not be so judgemental of ours.