BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids First post: WHAT A RELIEF!

Exactly.

I think you're right. I swear that the older my mom gets, she's becoming CF after the fact, lol. I see her tolerance for annoying kids going down all the time--and this is a woman who likes kids, but she sure hates the loud annoying ones and their breeders! And while she's fond of me, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have more if given the option, nor does she care that she'll never have grandkids.

I am new to this site and I love it! What a great group of people. I love the fact that everyone can be honest about how they feel and not be judge. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ToJVO37, I wouldn't have kids unless you are absolutely 100% sure. Once you have a child, you cannot give it back or put it in a kennel when you leave to go somewhere like I do with my dogs. Even if you had a child, there is no guarantee that you will get along with your kid or that they will take care of you when you are older. You should live your life for right now. No one knows what the future will bring. To bring a child into this world because someday you might want them to be with you is not a strong enough reason. There is so much that goes into raising children. I wish more people too the time to think about it like you are before they have them. Hang in there and just follow your heart and do what is right for you. Not what is right for your family or friends or society.

This is something I am struggling with right now as well so I understand how tough it is. It sounds like you are on the right tract though. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Freefall,

The nanny job idea is a great one, but the likelihood she'd go for it is a bit low, isn't it? Why not suggest she become a Big Sister? It's only a few hours a month (generally two visits per month of 2-4 hours each, doing things like sports, billiards, movies, etc.) with your "little", generally aged 8-14. I did it for a few years and it's great. The thing is, if you sign up for the program, you *know* you're making a contribution (the kids in the program are really lacking a good mentor in their lives and it's been proven that if they enter the program and are matched, they're less likely to commit crimes, become pregnant in high school, etc., and more likely to graduate). It would at least give her a little window into what (older) kids are like. As for younger kids, she could take her next block of vacation time and volunteer, 9-5, at a daycare. She soulds like kids are just a fun "concept" for her, and she's no actual idea what they're about, as you've said!

Becoming a parent? It's a crapshoot. Everyone seems to hope they're the one who's going to have an "Einstein" or a "Mozart", but they're just as likely to have a "Son of Sam" or a "Jeffrey Dahmer". The truth is, the kid is likely to be 100% average...the *only* legitimate reason for having a kid is because the couple wants to raise and nuture a child (not "make a contribution"!).

"Kids are a no compromise situation but people will often "settle" in the spouse department and make up whatever intellectual or emotional things are missing with friends, hobbies and family."

So, so true. Any other decision you can make as a couple is more reversible than kids. I like to use the analogy of moving to Alaska to run a mushroom farm! (yes...bizarre, strenuous, hard work, smelly...just like parenthood). I your partner wants to move to Alaska to open a mushroom farm, and you don't want to, yes, it's a pain in the [censored], but you could always move back and resume your previous life after a few years if it doesn't work out. Kids? Not so much. You knock over that first domino and there's no going back.

"People say that not having kids is selfish. I can't think of anything more selfish than having kids. Nothing wrong with that but lets keep it straight. I've gotten in several arguments at work for not ride-sharing, driving an SUV, etc. (The SUV is absolutely necessary in my line of work BTW) I tell them that their kids and their kids kids and so on, will use more resources than my SUV ever will. "That's different" they say. I'm like, "What you're really saying is that you have more right to those resources than I do." and so on."

Well, freefall...even as the owner of a Honda Insight that gets 65 mpg, I say bless you, thank you, for not contributing to overpopulation. If you counted the resources your potential kid(s) might use, and then those of any kid(s) your kid(s) might have, you could drive a Hummer the rest of your life and still have less impact --- as long as you remain CF. Yes, having nearly 7 billion people on the planet is awful, but when people think about overpopulation, they tend to think about those folks over in Africa with their 8 or 9 kids. And yeah, for those Africans, it is a very difficult life, because local customs and lack of birth control dictate that "that's just how it is" and it causes hunger and health problems, etc., etc. But it's us Westerners who are really the cause of the larger global problem re: overpopulation, in terms of the impact we have on resources and the planet.

Stick to your guns!

Elise

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This is really accurate. We are expected to cut parents with kids all sorts of slack for their kids behavior. It really is like badly behaved pets in public. Just imagine a dog, even a guide dog, howling and barking and running around a restaurant! The dog, and the blind guy, would be dining on the sidewalk! I know, kids are human (to their parents at least) and all that but they really are a lifestyle choice these days and should be regarded as such. It's like when people are late or missing at work and it's a kids thing. That's fine, as long as I get the same slack when my lifestyle choices keep me late or absent. Think of all the things that CF people do that might interfere with timely arrivals at work... Sleeping in peace, fooling around, having a leisurely breakfast and so on. Can you imagine showing up two hours late and saying, "Well, you know, we don't have kids so we had to sleep in a bit, knock one out, then fix a nice breakfast. You know how it is. Can someone fill me in?" Heh, heh. [/quote]

Hey Freefall,

You sound like such a catch --- articulate, "This American Life" fan, thoughtful! You live in California, according to your profile. Have you thought about joining a "No Kidding " group or joining/starting a Childfree Meetup? I organize a CF meetup for central New England. Even though a lot of the members are in couples (married or not), lots of them have CF pals and it's just a great way to network. If all of this can happen in exurban New England, I bet there's much more going on in California.

Also, I can't say enough about internet dating. I'm getting married next month to a fab (snipped) CF guy I met on Match.com in late 2002, after spending about 18 months doing nothing but internet dating (after leaving my previous marriage --- CF, yes, but he had alcohol problems). I really did it up --- over those 18 months, I corresponded with about 100 guys, had 30 first dates, and had two relationships, lasting a few months each, before meeting my now-fiance. It was a total blast, and a really good thing for me personally, as I'd met my first husband at 19 and had never done much in the dating department at all.

I know it's probably more difficult to find a CF woman than a CF man (I think a fairly large minority of guys, if they've given it a tiny bit of thought, tend to see the reasoning behind it), but...get out there, try it! The CF dating sites (like dinklink) *are* pretty small in scale. I would try one of the big grand-daddy sites like Match.com. If you're detailed in writing your profile, and you go out looking (as opposed to just waiting for the right people to find your profile), you might surprise yourself. The sheer numbers represented by a site like Match will only work in your favor...particularly if you'd be willing to date a woman in her 40s, not the baby-rabies-addled 30s, like your ex.

Good luck!

Elise

Hi Bonsai,

So true about the ex. Babies are just a fun concept and I don't think she really has any idea what they might do to her life. But I don't think it's a rational decision... It's kind of gut, like "I'm hungry" or I'm cold".

Gee thanks! Gosh, I feel like kind of a "catch" but the CF thing is like garlic for vampires. OK, maybe not the best analogy but you get my drift. Something about me and my job seems to be attractive (natural history filmmaker, homeowner, work keeps me very fit) to potential mommies. I think they see me spending hours waiting for an animal to emerge from a burrow or fitting all that complicated camera gear together and think, "Oh, he's so patient and handy!" (OK, this isn't a guess, I've heard this or variations of). Truth is I love animals and wild places and great gear and don't want anything to take that away from me. Yeah, I'm a guy <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sounds selfish but I feel like I'm bringing a whole world to people that they never get to see and making a real contribution. Hence, the SUV for moving all that gear around yet keeping it locked up and under wraps. Arghhhh. Also, the lifestyle doesn't leave all sorts of room for online dating.

The thing is, what I do is constantly throwing in my face what too many people are doing to the place. We are literally consuming and polluting our place out of house and home. Not exactly a great place of inspiration for starting a family... Although I get the, "All the things I could pass on to our kids" argument. A friend at the gym the other week said my decision was a "waste of great genes..." I took the compliment and moved on. Forgive the rant, I've been in the field for a week and all this stuff is kind of fresh. I really appreciate the thoughtful and non-judgemental forum here.

FF