BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Buddhism Discussion on A supreme Being, Higher Power, God

Funnily enough, a Tibetan Buddhist Lama once said that 'Meditation, then, is how Buddhists pray'....

I have touched albeit briefly, in another thread, on how I quietly venture inwardly and still my thoughts and calm the incessant chatter.... I do not pray in the conventional sense, but, in the way you have described, Bring the Mind home (thanks to Sogyal Rinpoch� for that wonderful term) and find extraordinary peace, serenity and Joy by simply Being.

One of my favourite quotations(that still holds charm for me) from the Bible, is:
"Be Still - and know that I am God." (psalm 46:10)

To be still - to find a calm and quiet state amidst the constant burble of a turbulent world - is an answer to prayer itself.

The First Noble Truth does indeed state that Life is Suffering.... But this gives an unfortunate impression of Buddhism as being a religion preaching eternal pessimism...
Nothing could be further form the Truth.
The original term, translated as 'suffering' is DUKKHA' which has also, however, variously been interpreted as 'Unsatisfactory', 'hard to bear', 'off the mark', and 'up and down'.
The Second Noble Truth expands on this, and explains that the reasons for this, are our clinging, or grasping, and our aversion, or resistance to the First Noble Truth...
That is to say, we cling to the pleasures of Life... we grasp at the desire to perpetuate and maintain these states of happiness... But we experience aversion and frustration when we realise (as we always must) that nothing whatsoever is permanent.. Everything is in a constant state of flux, and does not last for ever... so we find ourselves in a continuous state of frustration, and dissatisfaction....

But you're right...
Whatever happens to us is purely an occurrence that can only be labelled by us according to our perception....

Great Post, Thank you.

Jenna (The Biblebasix Moderator) has posted this in the other thread... Whilst I still maintain my stance on maintaining silence with regard to my comments in that particular thread, I feel adequately justified in exercising my right to respond within this thread....



This is not the only thing which as caused me to seriously question the existence of a Higher Power... I reserve Judgement, but am not in the slightest bit attracted to the manner in which 'He' (She or It) is portrayed by the sole means available to us... through the scriptures, that, when all is said and done, are still transmissions of interpreted 'Words of God' laid down by Human Beings, according to what they believe is what God intended. Whether such a Power exists or not, I find his protrayal to be arguable and flawed.
the Anti-Christ is doing plenty now, thanks a bunch... he's in plain evidence everywhere, here and now and in the present... What event exactly are you waiting for?



Where have I not shown you respect? Where have I derided or mocked, insulted or belittled you? I have nothing but the greatest respect for you and all who adhere to their beliefs as you do. I just don't agree with you at all. Why is disagreement direspectful?
What do you know of Buddhism? What of it's scriptures have you studied? What do you know of Siddharta Gauthama? Have you ever been tempted to study other faiths, in order to simply learn more about the different peoples of this earth...in order to better understand what makes them tick?

Tell me, Jenna.... Tell me what you know, for sure, about Buddhism...



The term 'She' seems here, to be a little derisory...You might at least have the courtesy of addressing me by my name....

I'm glad you've pointed out that it's not a direct quotation... But in doing so, you have introduced a flawed interpretation in your comment. I have met plenty of 'Fired up' Christians in my time... many people passionately devoted, faithful and vibrant in their Love of God and their belief in 'Him'. I would never describe them as 'Luke-warm'....What I was saying, is that I have never met any people anywhere else, (France, Italy, the UK) who adhere so strictly to the Bible and the Testaments as being absolutely, indisputably the factual, historical and true and honest account of events, and all that it depicts and relates as historical, incontrovertible, incontestable accuracy...

A case in point is this newly-discovered parchment and set of writings, portraying Judas as a close friend and confidant of Jesus Christ... Chosen to hear Divine secrets not revealed to the other disciples... if these documents are verified and authenticated, how then, will you have to alter your point of view, with regard to what has hitherto, for hundreds of years, clearly been an innacuracy?
If this is the case, why not take into account all other research that has taken place?

I have said it before, and I will say it again.... Historians, theologians, bibliographers, scientists, various and distinguished experts and archaeologists - many of them also devoted Christians and believers - have sought to divide fact from fiction with their research... This does not ever, however, bring in to doubt the Love of God and his essence as a supreme power... Simply because some of the stuffing has been knocked out of it, it doesn't take away the central message.... I think this is what you perceive... that in attempting to sort the wheat from the chaff, this has further sought to belittle, trivialise and to nullify Christian faith. All this is doing, is clearing muddied waters....
A challenge to the veracity of the Bible is not always a direct confrontation against the existence of a creator....some admittedly have sought to establish this.
I - like the Buddha, and as he instructed - am keeping an open Mind, and not seeking any such thing.

WOW! What an interesting discussion you have opened up, Alexandra!

I am going to contribute by giving some examples from my life. I think they will speak for themselves, as well as for me!

All of my early life I searched for God. I began life as a Methodist in Australia. Methodism was very narrow back then [50 - 60 ears ago] and I was strongly affected by this narrow thinking.

My view of God as a child was as my 'Heavenly Father' to whom I could pray, and by whom I would be protected and cared for IF I WAS A GOOD GIRL!

Well, I suffered two years of bad sexual abuse, and I can remember OH SO CLEARLY praying to my 'Heavenly Father' to save me, protect me, and make the abuse STOP! It was my prayer for those two years, but, I would ask myself, "WHY did He not answer and help me in my need? "

One day, I gave my sunday school teacher a hypothetical case. I told her about a 'friend of mine' who was experiencing these things. I'll never forget her response. She told me to 'stay away from that little girl, because she was a very bad little girl and God didn't love little girls that did things like that'.

So, I had my answer! God didn't help or protect me because I was bad and He didn't love me.

After that, I prayed constantly for healing, because I had developed Dissociative Identity disorder as a result of all the trauma which my little mind couldn't cope with. But healing didn't come. Help didn't come and all my attempts to seek help were silenced - by good Christian people.

I spent the next 20 years of my life trying desperately to please Him and to 'win back' His love. I became an Anglican at the age of 22, and attended church whenever I could, including week days, - I kept faithful vigils on my knees and prayed for forgiveness. I 'talked' to Jesus all the time, and continued to pray that my torment would be eased - but it never happened. The dreadful 'pictures' that tormented my mind were never taken away. My longing to be loved was never answered. I remained totally alone.

Then, when I was 26, I decided that I would give my whole life to GOD, and I entered an Anglican convent as a postulant. I only stayed for 6 months because a friend, who was a Novice there at the same time, told the Mother Superior that I was a lesbian [which was true, though I had never 'acted' upon it. I remained celibate until my mid 30's] As a result, I was asked to leave.

For the next ten years I tried to hold on to my faith. By the time I was 40 yrs old I had become convinced that there was no God, no Devil, no Heaven and no Hell. I found comfort and value in Buddhist teachings, though I never actually adopted the religion.

I am 67 now, and have seen so much of life, pain, injustice and cruelty that I cannot believe in a 'divine plan'. I understood very well (I studied Theology and hold a ThA) the idea that God gives us free choice, and that the horrors of this world are NOT His doing, but ours. However, I reasoned that if there IS a God, then He has a very cruel way of allowing his children to learn their lessons and advance spiritually. I have shown more compassion to a cockroach -( sorry!)

An example of this belief that God 'sends us trials' and the more He loves us, the greater the trials is this comment from a very spiritual nun I know. She knows about all the pain and anguish in my life, and her words of 'comfort' (?) to me recently went something like this:

"You must be a very special friend to God, and his love for you must be very great to have trusted you with all this pain, which you can offer up, as Jesus did. This is why He keeps sending you more. You are one of His trusted friends."

I don't think I need to add more to that. It says it all!

Oh Patience! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You were hit with so many wrong teachings about God and His love as a child. I can't believe someone had the gall to say that to you. Of course I also can't believe that there are still pastors out there that encourage abused wives to stay with their husbands and be submissive because "that's what good Christian wives do".

Some people just seem to miss the whole point!

I like what your nun said to you! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> She has the right idea. I have often heaard it said that God will not give us more than we can handle - but in actuallity it is: God will not give us more than He will prepare us for! We may not feel we can handle it, but if God puts us in a situation and we rely on Him, He will pull us through.

I am haveing to remind myslef of this daily as I am going through my trials with my son at this moment. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Dearest Michelle, thank you for posting and remaining with us, I so value your contribution...

But I cannot agree with you... I personally view what Patience's nun friend said as a back-handed compliment.... Just how much more is God going to allow her to have to tolerate and deal with, before He says, 'Ok, enough is enough....'? And why is he so indiscriminate and selective?
I will tell you a joke my Italian cousin, Lucio told me, many years ago... Italian Catholics love religious jokes...they poke fun at the establishment....

God is sitting in his heaven, watching TV with St. Peter...feet up on the stool, sandals kicked off... popcorn...you get the picture.... flicking through, (as men do!) and zapping, he comes across images of small babies, with distended stomachs, hospitals full of victims of AIDS and lethal diseases, men women and children being blown to pieces by indiscriminate bombs...
he sits up in horror, staring at the screen...
"Peter!! What is all this?? What are all these pictures? Where are they from...?"
"Oh, My Lord! Don't you remember - ? They're your prophesies, Famine, Pestilence, War, Death... the Four Horsemen...you know...? Boy, were you hopping mad when you brought them into the equasion...! Goodness, you meant business...!!
"But...But...That was just a fit of pique! I didn't mean it! I was joking, I tell you.....just kidding!! This is simply dreadful! Awful!! Quick, change channels...what else is on...?"
St Peter flicks through and they come upon a picture of eminent Cardinals and Bishops, dressed and robed in all their finery, strolling down the Aisle of St. Peter's Church in Rome... fine, priceless marble statues, works of art, solid gold candelabras...oppulence and pomp and splendour... and then a banquet where these same overweight, red-faced Churchmen are eating and drinking and laughing....
And God, incredulous, asks...
"And who the **** are these guys - !!??!!"
"Aaaah," replies St. Peter.... "They're the guys who realised you were only kidding....."

One laughs, but it's a bitter irony that there is many a true word said in jest.
I can't bear the hypocrisy of these Human Beings who can permit such disparity and still maintain that the Will of God is what governs our fate... that he sends us trials and tribulations, when those who might deserve better to be put to the test, have a life of comfort and ease, a comfort and priviledge unknown or denied to the millions of unfortunate 'sinners', whilst still fully expecting to be guaranteed a place in Heaven....
Dunno... Can't see it myself.

And the fact that you have had more than your fair share of such testing times - which are still on-going, bless you - is further evidence, (if you will) to me, that His Judgement of who deserves what, seems seriously flawed.....

...And there are those who have absolutely no religion, or faith in any God whatsoever, who day after day, struggle to survive, and manage to do so, against all odds... upon whom or what have they pinned their hopes? What is it then, that sustains and guides them? How to explain the grace and fortitude with which they overcome the insurmountable?

The fact that you show such strength, such fortitude and such determinantion in the face of the adversity you have faced, and are facing, is full, clear and vivid evidence to me that YOU are a powerful, warm, strong, compassionate Human Being, and to my mind, the credit is yours, and yours alone.

Sorry to be so outspoken, but Credit where credit is due.

Alexandra, I personally do not find any link that suffering = pessimism or that it is a "religion" (since I don't really view Buddhism as a religion as much as an individual path) that says all life is suffering is pessimistic.

I view it as more a factual statement, followed up by, it's suffering because of how we view it. Right there is the key and the power is in our hands to transform that suffering into another thing altogether. That's not pessimistic, it's a heavy clue.

Next, there is so much contradiction in Catholicism as practised. First they say Lucifer fell from Heaven and has free reign on this earth, now. Next, they say that the anti-christ will come and run the earth for 1,000 years. Well, has that already started? I already have heard all the theological arguments; some say it has already started, but then some of the key elements are not there.

I'd suggest all who haven't read (recently) The Grand Inquisitor parable in The Brothers Karamazov to check it out.

In it, Jesus comes back. He walks through town and all can recognize Him, he raises from the dead and gives hope.

Then the priest (Grand Inquisitor) shows up. He immediately jails Christ. And proceeds to tell him, in beautifully written prose, that he has no right to come back, no right to change "text of old".

The church has provided for these people, given them the bread he's refused to give them, and the people have slavishly left their free will at the feet of the church. (sound familiar?)

Dostoevsky says it better than I can and you can find it online; please do read it.

In essence, by the strict and slavish following of the bible, they have done what Nietzsche said they did. "God is dead." Why? Because we have killed him. Through organized religion, we have killed all the essence of the truth of it.

To Patience, I am very sorry that was your early upbringing. My father was raised Catholic and it tortured him. He therefore raised his kids with no religion, allowing us to choose ONLY when we were adults.

An adult mind is better able to cope with choosing a path. You were harmed because your childlike mind believed some things it should never have been led to believe. You are not to blame.

I wasn't insinuating that you personally had found this connection....But it has thus been put to me by others, and I have seen it misinterpreted and described this way... I was just clarifying the point for those who might be interested, that's all...As this is a Buddhist thread, and we might get visitors... (put kettle on....!)

Au contraire, I find your handle on all relevant matters very lucid and sensible...It's a breath of fresh air to read your posts!

JimLow offered this in the other thread....



You see...This is what I mean about all these promises and assurances being in the future tense.... there is no sense of reward in the Now...it's all far and away... after you die....after you've gone through goodness knows how many more trials, tribulations and tests of faith...


Promises, promises.....

If He was a schoolteacher, we'd have him suspended...
if a dog trainer did this to his animals, we'd report him to the 'wherever' Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals....
This kind of behaviour on a human level would be at best, frowned upon, at worst, intolerable.
Doesn't anybody see this?