BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Bible Basics Christians and Halloween

No sir, that's why I said, I wasn't trying to start anything, I was truly just curious! (Not many people would post with a REV in front of their name). My user name used to be musicalmom- it described me much better then BellaAstmaHost - because it described the parts of me, but now that I'm an editor, I use the "asthma" name so people will know about my site, and know who I am within Bella.

So I was just curious as to who you were.

BellaAsthmaHost,

Ah, the vagaries of the internet forum.

I assure you that I took no offense and I did not mean to appear defensive. In re-reading my response I can see how I may have given that impression. I apologize for that. Unfortunately, I misunderstood your purpose in posing your questions. I wrongly assumed that your intent was to dismiss my original criticism because you believed that I did not share Jenna's beliefs.

Rev Mike,

I can see your point in that I am not as formally educated as you are and so there for can't possibly know as much as you do...I said researched, not "objective"...I'm not a journalist (chuckle)..I am a writer. I write from my perspective and mine alone...

"Many Christians have taken the time and effort to educate themselves and can discuss their views and beliefs intelligently because of that." quoted from RevMike

I suppose you mean by "Many Christians" you also mean you? I write from my perspective. I spend time in the Word with the Lord everyday and write from my heart. I write to other believers in Christ and to those who may not believe. Every article is mine and I stand by it...it's personally written and theres a part of me in each one. I'm not offended, just pointing out what you are too "humble" to acknowledge...that you think you are better equipped to do what I am doing...what the Lord gave to me...a small place from which I can pass on what He has shown me in my spirit.

Why don't you write something if you think that what I have written is so ineffectual...I feature writings from other writers sometimes and I would be happy to feature it for you here at Bella.

Morigaine,
Concerning the following quote...

"Research is more than cutting and pasting information from whichever website(s) agree(s) with your personal beliefs. And to responsibly research something, you have to be willing and able to look at it objectively and consider it with an open mind and from a perspective that is likely different from your own." quoted from Morgaine

I am not a plagarist, if that is what you are implying...

As for your explaination of responsible research; I have researched and looked at the information from many different places...books,web info,PEOPLE, history...and have made my conclusions taking into consideration who I am and what I beleive, where the article will be published (what site etc), and who will be readng it. I dismiss some info as being too detailed and too hard to understand..then I write an article for the web and I reread it and then I rearrange it...then I have someone else read it..then I post it. While doing all this I do alot of praying...I want only that which the Lord wants me to publish to be published..not for me but for HIm. I don't get paid for this, I don't make anything for it...and I think you need to understand that discussion is OK... and that nothing in this forum has interrupted Bella's Forum standards in any way. This is the Christianity forum and Christian values are discussed and defended here. If someone (you) is offended there are other forums that might be more agreeable...I am in NO WAY asking you to leave...I just want you to be clear about Bella Online standards...You are welcome as well as your views...

Everyone,
As for the comment I made concerning wehat I laughingly referred to as "(edited)" I mean stuff like the following...an Part of an email that was sent by someone who obviously doesn't agree with what I wrote, (edited)
"You are the most relpulsive human being ever on the face of the earth."

This is the kind of stuff that I call "(edited)" (edited)

It's like last year when my article was stolen and posted on WitchVox.com and I had no idea!...all of a sudden my email was bombarded with email just like the one above...I even recieved a few death threats which I immediatly reported to the authorities. I wouldn't have baulked at WitchVox posting my article for discussion and review on their site, but I would have asked them not to include my email... But in pure Holy Spirit style, that experience brought me some of my best and most trusted Pagan and Wiccan resources. I learned so much from the true people I met there... But I am still me. I didn't change my beliefs (like I stated in a previous post), they didn't change theirs and they still communicate with me knowing what kind of "twist" I put on the information the give me. I consider myself to be very blessed to have been given the opportunity to reach out...even if I have to dodge a few bullets now and then.:)

Jenna wrote:

"This is the kind of stuff that I call "Jenna Haters" people who attack me personally instead of airing their opposing views somewhere where they can actually recieve my attention and express their feelings and personal beliefs...

It's like last year when my article was stolen and posted on WitchVox.com and I had no idea!...all of a sudden my email was bombarded with email just like the one above...I even recieved a few death threats which I immediatly reported to the authorities. I wouldn't have baulked at WitchVox posting my article for discussion and review on their site, but I would have asked them not to include my email... But in pure Holy Spirit style, that experience brought me some of my best and most trusted Pagan and Wiccan resources. I learned so much from the true people I met there... But I am still me. I didn't change my beliefs (like I stated in a previous post), they didn't change theirs and they still communicate with me knowing what kind of "twist" I put on the information the give me. I consider myself to be very blessed to have been given the opportunity to reach out...even if I have to dodge a few bullets now and then."


I need to clarify some things for your readers so that they do not misjudge your detractors. First off WitchVox (http://www.witchvox.com/) doesn't steal articles. Articles found on the web through news searches like Google News and are submited by members to the site. Then if Wren Walker at the Vox finds them interresting, she will post a paragraph or two of the article and a link to said article.

You should be happy to know that between 3 and 10 thousand people read the articles on the Vox on a daily basis. So more people are reading you.

I personally found your article through a Google News search. I do this every morning for my Yahoo group and Blog. I think that Bella Online has a deal with Google so if you put the word "Pagan" or "Wicca" in your article it will come up on a search.

About WitchVox including your email...well they didn't. That was found on Bella's website not WitchVox. I wonder why you wish to blame them? I guess for the same reason Xtians have blamed Witches for centuries. Things like crop failure, solar eclipes, infidelity of husbands and priests, that sort of thing.

I am sorry that you recieved death threats...As we all know there are crazy people in every religion, like those who kill doctors and nurses at abortion clinics.

I hope you don't mind having me monitor this board. I guess you could call me the "Devil's Advocate".

Brightest Blessings! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Arius

http://thepaganleft.blogspot.com/

Hi Arius,
One thing I don't understand from your various postings is this; you are obviously (or at least to me) hostile towards Jenna. Your tone and your words seem often disdainful of her, yet you always sign off with "Peace" or this last time "Brightest Blessing". Why?

That's kind of like screaming at a child and then going "there's a good boy" and giving hm a pat on the head.
It just doesn't seem to fit.

Jenna chooses not to celebrate Halloween at all - that's her choice.
I choose to celebrate with a festival held at my church that we've turned around to exalt Jesus Christ - that's my choice.
Friends of mine (who are Christian) let their kids go trick or treating, and decorate their house with pumpkins (but they don't worship the devil)- that's their choice.
I'm assuming you celebrate Halloween in its more original sense- that's your choice (I don't happen to like your choice, but I'm not going to interfere with it.)

At this point anything I say or do is going to have little or no impact on you, so I'll pray. I'll pray that maybe somewhere down the road God has someone that will be able to reach your heart better than I or Jenna can, because I think our relationship is a bit too antagonistic. And I am sorry for that, because I hate the fact when I can't be friendly with someone.

The "quick reply" is not working. I just lost my entire original reply. When I clicked "continue" it showed "current form is no longer valid". Please, no comments about Divine Intervention <img src="/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Jenna,

You've given me a lot to tackle here, I hope I can do it coherently.

My formal education notwithstanding, I take exception to your statement of certain historical data as fact when it most certainly is not. I understand that you write from a personal perspective, but empirical fact is not subject to interpretation. As a writer (as opposed to journalist - per your characterization) you clearly state your personal beliefs, but, when you try to support your position by using historical data, you owe your audience the respect of being as accurate as possible. You claim that it is not possible to know as much as I, and I have to disagree with that statement. You did some "research", but you have to utilize empirical sources, not just those that share your views.
I'm also a bit perplexed by your "if you think you could do better, then do it" (paraphrased) response. I never implied that I could do better, I SAID that YOU could do better.
When you are in a position to teach - and you are - you should take that role seriously. If you believe that you are not in this position by accident, then respect in your own faith should drive you to be as brutally honest as possible.
By "many Christians" I meant many other Christians with whom I've discussed many issues. I did not refer to myself, and, despite your accusation of false humility on my part, was not placing myself above you. I am of a different flavor of Christianity than yourself, and would never presume that I had any right or reason to insult you in that way.
Please understand, I was criticizing your "facts" not your beliefs. I respect your beliefs, but respect is not tolerance and I occasionally find an opportunity to impart what I hope is constructive criticism. You should believe as you feel you are led to believe in you heart/spirit. Merely getting the facts straight poses no threat to that.

That's it for my rambling. I'm sorry it's so sloppy, but I'm pressed for time.

Hi Michelle,

The reason why I have responded in the way that I have, is the same reason I came to this forum in the first place. Jenna in her position as an Editor at Bella Online is using hate speech against my faith.

She writes:

"Halloween is an occasion when the ancient gods (actually demons) were worshiped with sacrifices by the ancient Druids." (False)

"Beloved, it is my opinion that Halloween is not for Christians. You may pretend that it's a harmless game for kids, but in reality it represents paganism, Satanism, idolatry, witchcraft, and naturalism!" (This ones funny, Naturalism was a Literary Movement in Western Literature during the 1860's-80's, and has nothing to do with Wicca.)

"Did you know that October 31st is considered by Satanists to be one of their most important days of the year? It is the Wiccan New Year, the time of year when the supposed goddess gives birth to the god who also becomes her mate.... Beloved, WAKE UP! Don't honor the Devil!"

There she goes lumping us with Devil Worshipers. This is hate speech pure and simple. I do belive that hate speech is illegal in the US as well as here in Denmark.

The Devil is a Jewish, Muslim and Christian Deity. Wicca does not believe in this concept yet Christains like Jenna continue to associate their concept of evil with my faith. This is wrong, and Bella Online should tell her that using hate speech is against the law. I wonder if I should contact Bella Online a lodge a complaint. I think I will.

I am upset that she herself has not responded to my posts. Is she afraid that my knowledge of her church's history will show the lies and hate she is expressing?

I wonder...

I will continue to monitor her articles and her posts on this board.

I thank you for your prayers Michelle and you will be in mine. I pray for all America that it doesn't fall into a blinded Theocracy, ruled a NeoCon elite, which is neither Right nor Christian.

May the Goddess bless you.
Arius

http://thepaganleft.blogspot.com/

Hi again!

I just found this on Bella Online:

You further agree not to use BELLA to send or post on message boards or any place on BELLA, any message or material that is unlawful, harassing, libelous, defamatory, abusive, threatening, harmful, vulgar, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, racially offensive, inaccurate, or otherwise objectionable material of any kind or nature or that encourages conduct that could constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law or regulation, or encourage the use of controlled substances. BellaOnline.com reserves the right to delete any such material from BELLA. BellaOnline.com will cooperate fully with any law enforcement officials and/or agencies in the investigation of any person or persons who violate the Terms of Service contained in this Section 6.

I believe her article has breached those Terms of Service.

Blessings!

Arius

http://thepaganleft.blogspot.com/

Aereaus,

(Yes, I do have too much time on my hands this week)

Anyway, I don't feel that it's fair to characterize Jenna's writing as "hate speech". I also believe that it is very dangerous for you to imply that it borders on anything that is illegal. Any forum that allows for the exchange of subjective opinion will undoubtedly ruffle some feathers, but you can be constructive in how you phrase your disagreements. By the way, I believe Jenna was referring to "Naturism", and I think that you are aware of that as well. Skip the opportunity to bash and use it as an opportunity to educate. Being too literal will only serve to cloud your own points.
I know that Jenna is perfectly capable of defending herself, and I'm not trying to step on any toes here. I just want to be even-handed in expressing my opinions regarding the use of fact to support beliefs.
Categorizing your beliefs with Satanism is not hate speech - it's incorrect, but not hate. You do the same when you lump Christians, fundies and neocons into the same group; it's wrong, but it's not hate.
When Jenna starts advocating public pagan-burnings, then you might start worring/when you start calling for human sacrifices then we will start worrying.