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#143352 09/19/02 08:48 AM
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This forum is a bit too quiet. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Give your opinion on Iraq, terrosism in the world and USA.

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#143353 09/24/02 08:57 AM
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Is that too sensible to touch or you prefer to stay away from politics?

Why don't you say whether Iraq should or should not be leveled, your opinion on 11th of September, on who did it and so on ...

#143354 10/03/02 03:10 PM
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Jeez here I was trying to be less feisty in the forums, and you're trying to stir things up <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think Iraq is a really hard situation. I get email from people in Iraq who are miserable with the situation there. One guy said his 24-year old daughters were thrown into jail for 3 days because they went to a birthday party that also had men there. They were 24!! I can't even imagine living like that.

But what do you do? Anything you do to 'punish' the country really punishes the people there. And things you do to try to help the people - like giving food and clothing - usually just gets grabbed by the military anyway ...


Lisa, Birding Enthusiast
#143355 10/05/02 02:48 AM
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Well, it is up for you to decide, whether you want to participate or not. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you prefer me to shut up and keep on discussing what Auron has in his jug, well ... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is a forum, a plce where we can talk about anything, I guess that more sensitive matters are also more interesting. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Correct me if I'm wrong.

On one hand yes, but on the other it is THEIR lifestyle. Their traditions and religion. It is for THEM to decide what to do and what not to. Those girls should have been aware by that age of the local laws. It may look bad to other countries, but it is the right way for them and you (I mean exterior world) have no right to judge them and much less to punish them. Tell me, what right do you (and in this case - USA) have to attack Iraq? Who gave it to you? UN certainly did not. It was USA's idea to put embargo on Iraq, so, the poor people suffer there because of you (USA).

#143356 10/05/02 02:54 PM
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I don't mind debating at all <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just want the record to show I was lured into this one <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

First, just because a ruling party sets down rules doesn't mean they're right and that the majority of the people WANT those rules. It just means those in power are forcing them onto the people. Most people in Iraq don't like the rules they have to live by.

Take Nazi Germany. They were happily killing millions of Jews. Let's say that they weren't attacking other countries, they were just "minding their own business" passing laws that Jews were to be killed, and killing them. Shouldn't the outside world step in and try to keep the Jews from being murdered? Or should they just watch and say "Oh well, Hitler is in charge and this is his new rule, so I guess it's ok"?

As far as Iraq goes, they were told to let in inspectors to prove they weren't making weapons that could destroy all life on the planet. They keep refusing. All evidence says they are actively working on this, and past evidence shows they like to use this sort of weapon.

It's like Fluffy, the cat we just had to give away. You can keep saying "Fluffy don't scratch my leg into shreds" but if that cat keeps causing damage and now your leg is infected, you have to take other steps, isolate the cat, remove its claws. You don't just sit there letting the cat shred you until you die.

If your neighbor has fire-bombed you twice already and your kids are sleeping upstairs, and you catch him in your back yard assembling ingredients, and ask him to stop and he doesn't, it's time to do something. And since we've shown that Star Wars doesn't really work, there aren't many other ways of putting a 'wall' between the US and Iraq.


P. Pureheart
#143357 10/06/02 04:58 PM
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It is such an interesting topic indeed. Before anything, I want to let you know that I'm in friendly mood and want to debate and discuss things, not insult you or your country. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Read your second paragraph again. You can easily put "USA" in place of "Iraq" and change a couple of words and it will make great sence. USA is in power nowadays and dictates the W H O L E world what to do, many don't like it but are forced to obey.

Iraq has given a "GO" on letting the inspectors in, and it is USA who say "NO!" ... odd behavior, isn't it? USA are not interested in letting the inspectors in, because they will come, find nothing and USA will loose the great opportunity to exersice in bombing and also they will not achieve what they want - have that country under complete control.

You know, we're living in civilised and "democratic" world and all that. Everything is supposed to be solved with diplomacy all that. But there many wars going on in the world. MANY. USA say: "Sadam is a bad guy, we need to level the country with the ground to prevent the strike." And they are ready to attack. Tell me what is IT if not a declaration of war and invasion. Everything is surrounded by nice and very democratic props, everything looks honest and respectable, but behind all that it is a war over territory.

Think again, EVEN IF Iraq had some kind of weapon. Do you think they are stupid enough to use it? They launch it, no matter how strong it is, it will not erase the world, and then what? They will be leveled by countless nukes falling down on their heads.

As for terrorism, I hope you don't think that Iraq is the real source of them, do you? They don't have enough money to buy food, I'm not talking about supplying terrorist. But the source is close - Saudi Arabia is the place.

What has Iraq done in the past, I don't really remember, refresh me. Have they declared a war on USA or something. Launched a nuke. It was USA who declared a war on defenceless country and won it with ease. They wouldn't fight Russia, but Iraq ... USA needs a small victorious war to cover their economical problems, Iraq is the one chosen to beat.

WWII is a different matter, but interesting too. Who was the outside world to step in? - Noone. When Hitler srarted the march on Europe taking one country after another, it was then when everyone gor preoccupied. By the way, it was the fault of those who won the WWI in WWII. Germany had no choice, they were put in such conditions that it would be a matter of time. As for killing Jews and other undesired in Germany minorities ... well, they had their own idea about the world. USSR won the war and installed it's regime, nobody said anything, since the right is the one who won. "They defeated Nazi's", if Germany had won the war, then they would be saying "They defeated kommunism". By the way, USA had nothing against the Nazi Germany, they even supported it in a certain way. And the fact that they gladly accepted all the Nazi scientists is also very interesting. Aren't they bad? Aren't they the ones who were inventing the new means on how to kill people? - Or maybe by offering their knowledge and services, they could take off the guilt?

Speaking of evidence, why is it that all of it comes from USA? I thought that James Bond was a British agent.

The world is full of economic and politic interests. Nobody cares for noone if it is not in someone's interests. And those who try to, usually have little success. There are interests behind any war, any conflict.

One more question ... take it easy. Why do YOU think everyone, especially the arab world ... errr ... hates USA? I've seen it on TV, that people in America really don't understand why.

I hope I didn't cross the line too much. Feel free to defend your point. Don't get angry with me. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Try to be objective, don't let your emotions make your thoughts ... oh, wait, it was in another topic. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Have a nice day.

#143358 10/07/02 03:54 PM
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I don't think having anyone dictate is a good idea. But I do believe in self defense. Those are two completely different issues.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that Iraq *does* have the weapons. I haven't read any news report from any country that believes Iraq is innocent in this situation. However, Iraq has been hiding what it's been doing. And the current concern is that the manner in which Iraq is allowing inspectors in, after fighting it for so long, is specifically designed to prevent the inspectors from properly inspecting. The US is saying that they want to *properly* inspect for weapons. Iraq is saying "you can only inspect us in the way we design, which will prevent you from finding what we're working on".

Do you really not know what Iraq has done that is hostile? I can find many, many URLs for you if you haven't been keeping up with the past 20 years of history involving Iraq ...


P. Pureheart
#143359 10/08/02 09:45 AM
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Self defence, right. :rolleyes:

The inspectors that were in Iraq the last time have searched everything, including the places they shouldn't have. Iraq says that it wishes to let in new inspectors with no apriori conditions and no restrictions. You say they don't show anything, they are cheating and hiding something and you know that, must be telepathy.

What evidence do the USA have? You say a lot: "Iraq is bad, we have an evidence!" and then what? Nobody hasn't seen any yet.

As for the wepons, USA and their servant (to be polite) - GB, are the only ones that think so. So, you haven't really read any other news.

Are you talking about Kuwait? What are the connections? Iraq has attacked Kuwait, not USA. But of course, Bush the elder, couldn't have missed such an opportunity.

You haven't answered the question, by the way, is something wrong with it? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just don't understand one thing, do you REALLY believe what you say or you want to tell me all that democracy-humanity-independance-human rights cr*p to support the legend?

That's weird, isn't it ... you know less about your own country than the outside world does ... that's also called "brainwashing".

Sorry, if I'm being mean and sarcastic and maybe even rude here. I just cannot hear you saying all that with a completely serious expression in your face. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Don't get offended.

#143360 10/08/02 10:59 AM
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You were saying Iraq is peaceful and would never use weapons. I was contesting that. Are you now admitting that Iraq is not known to be a peaceful country?

Iraq has ADMITTED to having the weapons. Read here, from British research:

http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/iraqdossier.pdf

"Under Saddam Hussein Iraq developed chemical and biological weapons, acquired missiles allowing it to attack neighboring countries with these weapons and persistently tried to develop a nuclear bomb. Saddam has used chemical weapons, both against Iran and against his own people. Following the Gulf War, Iraq had to admit to all this. And in the ceasefire of 1991 Saddam agreed unconditionally to give up his weapons of mass destruction".

This isn't brainwashing <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Do you agree or disagree that he did these things? I have to say it's brainwashing if you somehow don't know about these things ...

If you're saying "I can't believe anything the US or UK says" (which is being a bit overzealous in your anti-US belief, but OK), here is a quote from GERMANY. Or do you believe they're part of this gigantic lie-about-Iraq conspiracy?

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/germany/02/24/iraq.weapons/

"BERLIN, Germany -- Saddam Hussein may be able to fire nuclear weapons at Iraq's neighbours within three years, Germany intelligence service has said. The service also reported it may be able to hit Europe with missiles within five years. "


P. Pureheart
#143361 10/08/02 11:04 AM
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Iraq by the way is the one who refused to let inspectors in since 1998:

"Iraq barred U.N. weapons inspectors in 1998, making it virtually impossible to keep track of what the West believes are Baghdad's efforts to develop its nuclear, chemical and biological arsenal. "

In fact, they had been CAUGHT at the development which is why they locked the doors:

http://www.iaea.or.at/worldatom/Programmes/ActionTeam/nwp2.html

"IAEA Action Team's extensive inspection activities in Iraq between 1991 and 1998 resulted in a technically coherent picture of Iraq's clandestine nuclear programme. The programme was very well funded and was aimed at the indigenous development and exploitation of technologies for the production of weapons-grade nuclear material and production and manufacturing of nuclear weapons. "

OK so they inspect from 1991 to 1998. They say "Look, we have proof you're making nuclear weapons." And Iraq says "You can't come in any more".

So now you're going to say the UN weapons team was lying?


P. Pureheart
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