BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Today I got 'the look'

followed by an awkward silence and then a woman getting up and leaving the room.

4 of us around a table, all in a caring profession, one says (with no background context) that a male friend of hers had said "oh, if we hit 40 and you haven't found anyone then we could get together, I'll give you children but stay out of their lives and just let you get on with it". Being no indication from her that she wanted kids prior to her stating this I said "Oh, I couldn't really go along with that, it should be about the child not just an adult filling some desire, and who are we to say that a child shouldn't be conceived with the prospect of two parents to look after it, especially if we've had two parents ourselves."

Boy did I think I hadn't said anything wrong, I mean I made it clear it's about the child (in my mind), but boy was there silence, followed by some girl saying "I'm so glad I'm gay" followed by this woman just leaving the table and the room.

I didn't even say it in a negative tone of voice, just in a caring about the child tone of voice.

Some people! She's nearly 40, lives with her dad, has no remote prospect of a boyfriend and just seems to think (as transpired later that day) that children are some thing that she has a right to whenever she decides to do it and it doesn't matter if we set out (at the point of conception) to deprive a child of one parent.

First off I have to address this becuase it's starting to get a little weird for me. One parent households are just as loving and caring as two parent households. A single parent is just as good as two parents honestly at least in my opinion

Though I will say, that was a rather strange statement from someone nearing 40 years of age. It also shows a lack of responsibility to just up and have a kid, just to have one. That's like owning a pure-bred dog just to show off, or owning a huge hummer to make a statement. You should have a child because it's something you want in life, not because you're filling some whim or fancy that suddenly struck you in the night.

She could have acted more adult about your statement, you made a very logical point and it was merely conversation not an argument. The least she could have done is dropped the topic if she didn't wanna hear anymore. Oh well you win some you lose some, good going either way =)

I've seen some two parent households that would have been better for the child if it were one and one parent households that would be so much more rewarding for the child if it was two.

Anything goes these days. Groups and people demanding this or that and politicians scrambling for support.

I don't think there's a norm anymore. But if in fact the child comes first, one or two parents, it is about the child and benefitial to their development

It just goes to show what an emotive topic 'children' is.
I feel sorry for the woman who still lives with her dad.
she obviously isn't happy with her lot. - maybe she was judging others response to the fact she may have a child without a partner, and wondered what sort of reaction she might have from people she knows ?

If she's really desperate for a 'family' she may see this as her only option, and got upset at her 'only hope' being negated in anothers eyes.

She might have a lot of respect for you Random, and your opinion really counts, then if you look down on the only option she feels open to her ( of course it's not, but she may be fixated that this is her only route to happiness ) then she may have gone for a cry ?

I don't know, but I've met people desperate for kids, and it is all consuming, and looking from the outside , a bit scary !

Plus, the embarrasment that must come from living with your dad - take the belittlement from others we get sometimes about 'no kids ! ' then add the rest from other holier than thous saying/ thinking 'what a freak ! no partner !' then it must be really hard.
You will know best Random, what she may have thought, but if, on top of all those emotions, she's reaching forty, with the added judgement from blokes ( and we give to ourselves ) like - you're getting old - you're past it - best years are behind you....

I really found it hard to get to 40, so maybe she is too.

Please note I'm not suggesting for two seconds that single parents are bad, coupled parents are good etc. I just believe that all things being equal (i.e. that the potential parent/s is loving and not abusive) that we should set out to conceive with the aim of providing two loving parents. Not least because it makes the job of parenting a heck of a lot easier, but also because nature still determines (for our species anyway) that it takes 2 to make the child.

But I have no issue with single parents, same-sex parents, and fully understand that sometimes kids would be far better off if one of their parents (where there are two) left the family home.

Gaynor, I agree with what you're saying, although at least where we live it is so expensive that anyone without a partner will, most likely, still be living with their parent/s even approaching 40, so it doesn't have the stigma that it may have elsewhere. She didn't seem upset, just very bizarre!

I suppose what I'm saying is that when someone makes the decision to conceive knowing full well that one of the party involved in the conception will never be involved in that child's life then whose wants and needs are they really fulfilling?

I just cannot believe for two seconds that the kid's needs come into it at all.

I agree, and doesn't it just prove our point that having a child comes from selfish motives ? It's all about what THEY want, not the child. This 'Fulfilling a need '.
When my step daughter got pregnant, she wore her belly expecting everyone to comment, give her extra attention, like 'look at me'.

That's why I never say childfree people selfish, definately the other way round.

This all reminds me of my friend lily, she's a wonderful mother of one, but recently said "I want as many kids as possible" which left me kinda shocked. Considering her hardships raising one child with a bi-polar husband and living with her in-laws. She could've just been saying that as something she wants, but will never fulfill, but it wasn't until she replied to one of the remarks and said "I can't wait to have my second child, me and andy already discussed it"

I only groaned when I asked why she wanted a second, being the first is already a handful, she said "Oh I love kids and I just really want more". I love animals, but I understand my limits too! She doesn't seem to think that having 8 kids, is all that terrible, but I wonder how she's going to divide her attention equally amidst 8 kids without making 1 or 2 feel left out. She seems to think she can do it, but I think she's just simply selfish.

Though I've noticed this kinda common pattern of wanting kids for the strangest, most selfish reasons. Which leads me to wonder, how can childfree people be selfish, when parents are the most selfish of all.

Of course having children is selfish. Organisms are nothing more than vessels our genes utilize to replicate themselves and get passed along (Dawkins's "The Selfish Gene" is a must read for any biologist). I've never been under the impression that any person wanting a child should be doing it "for the child." People have kids because of a nagging biological impulse and the assumption that filling said impulse will give them some sense of satisfaction. And, since our genes want protection until they can be passed on even further, our species (along with others) has evolved neurochemicals that give us an attachment to said offspring to make sure we care for them (oxytocin = love). Pump someone full of oxytocin while they are staring at a cobra and they'll start to care for it. Now, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing people feel this way. I also don't think kids have to have 2 heterosexual parents with some magical amount of income to become productive members of society. I just want to do my work, love my husband and my cats, and not have to hear a screaming baby in a midnight sneak peek premier of a movie. Other than that, I don't give a flying Adenine what the selfish genes are up to. Let 'em keep tricking otherwise intelligent people into spending copious amounts of time and energy into rearing more little DNA machines. Not my problem.

It is Dolyn, although with some people I like to give them the benefit of the doubt that there was some urge so strong they really couldn't fight it. However, with others it's clear that even when not feeling broody they 'want' children for specific reasons that are entirely selfish.

I don't care except for over-population, the fact they now seem to have the monopoly on opinion when it comes to new laws being created (i.e. all non-parents are now paedophiles until proven otherwise, which is strange because most paedophiles are parents), and they seem to want us to bow down to their little 'angels'. Of course there is also the fact that I had to make someone practically hate me to stop them just dumping their kid on me with no notice and (as it turned out) usually for very unimportant reasons compared to what I had going on at the time. She still hates me, but it's preferable to having the kid dumped on me regularly!