BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Help! what to do re: have kids vs no kids?????????

Hi Gang, Glad to find ya. Can relate to Gaynor8002, and have been reading this site and really need some help asap.. Ok the situation is: married coming on 8yrs, very very happy :) I (the lady) have just turned the big 4-0. He is around the same age. First 0-4yrs of marriage I was ill with an illness that wipes you out big time, lucky I could stop work and rest and gradually got better by rest, doctors, spending heaps of money on it so have been in debt whole marriage. 5th yr retrained into new career in health industry, 6th yr worked and 7th yr moved, own own business and now in 8th yr of marriage. Phew! Thank God I am better enough to work but still not 100%. I would say I am about 70% operating. I now have insulin resistance and have to start to seriously work out otherwise it could turn into diabetes etc. Neither of us have that burning desire that just is primal to have kids, but we also are not 100% against it either, tricky huh. He works a huge job and is interstate almost every week for at least, 1,2 or 3days, sometimes all week. My parents are elderly and not able to help with babysitting, his parents are interstate helping their daughter who is also ill and married to a wonderful guy, with their two kids, and we recently spent time with them and saw how much of a struggle they are having with 2 active kids wearing everyone out and putting huge pressure on their marriage, just seeing how draining it is and how their is never any down time with kids, like ever! and she cant keep up and cant keep all the balls in the air, and the house is so messy like reflecting their internal state, and it is scary - bigtime!!! Then their is my friend who is also ill and struggling and got married and fianlly came off her anxiety medication and got pregnant, as she really wants kids and is now back on the medication...not very encouraging all this is it? Just to make sense this illness is not something I share with anyone as it tends to open a can of worms I am not into discussing but so I can get advice the illness spoken of in all cases is CFS but this is not what I want feedback on, I want to advice on what to do, how do we make up our minds what we want? How do we decide to have a child or not??? Time is ticking away and neither of us really know what we want! He is happy with work and sport and me and I am happy with work and art and him and to now change direction and just as we may be moving up in the world, ie his job is good, we may finally be out of debt soon, my health is stable, I enjoy my work, I like having time to rest, do art, look after my elderly parents, should we risk this to have a child? Will we look back at 60yrs of age and go, gee I wish we had had a kid? Which regret is more powerful; to look back and go gee I wish we had a child when we could of, or now we have a child but my health has suffered and you had to downgrade your job so you could look after me and the kid again, and now we are back in debt???? Oi I just am so sick of thinking about it all the time, and feeling torn and confused, society says its normal, everyone we know has kids, esp at the church we go to, we feel like freaks. It is hard not to compare ourselves to others even though it is useless to. Most others have a house and kids and we have neither. We soon may have material things, but this is not what we live for, even though it will be nice. I have many a story of feeling rejected about not having any kids. We are bucking the norm and we are paying for it. But we also know not many people know or understand this illness and the many levels it operates on and how you can relapse with it and basically not be able to function, it is scary and I never never want to be that sick again. Also I think of how I would feel had the shoe been on the other foot, and I had looked and nursed my husband back to health and a functional level only to have a child and slide back down the well again...that would be awful for him to bear,, again.. I do like kids, not when they are screaming that high pitched thing, but we both see they can be awesome and fun and worth the effort but we dont have a built in 'gotta have it' desire that everyone else seems to have like its just like breathing to do it. We look and see the responsibility and how also him being interstate alot will leave me single handedly raising the child and he does not want to do that to a child either, he knows the affects of having a really busy father on him and he doesnt want to do that to a kid. Also we could probably help alot of people alot easier if we didn't have kids, we are both socially minded and want to help the community in some way, and feel quiet fulfilled with our lives now and very busy too!! We wonder how we will fit them in. I am practically run of my feet as it is!! We have a god daughter and that is nice. But I also crave deep relationships and this is where I wonder how that would be nice to have, banking on the fact I would be able to have this with my child, I have a close rel. with my mum and as we/I spend time with them I question who will do this for us also??? Also having an estranged brother and knowing just because you have a kid doesn't mean they will spend any time with you in your twilight yrs, esp. if you marry a women who hates your family. But still....it would be nice to have a kid to love, guide, advise, teach, play with, give stuff to, but all the work, and I go through the 'what ifs' regularly too, what if the kid is sick, become drug addicts, hate us like my brother hates his parents, etc etc endless isnt it...to bring a child into the world you have to be willing to accept anything and everything that comes along with the child, to spend your life worrying about it and it would be so precious, they bring the deepest feelings out and saying no to having them is saying no an experience the world can give you..like on my deathbed will I say I wish I had? I was in hospital once and the lady next to me didnt speak at all, then one night at 3am she said clear as a bell "I wasted my life" !!!! I didnt know what to do! So I did nothing but it has stayed with me, did she mean because she didnt have kids? How does one make up their mind??? How do we get more info to base our decision on?? I am really scared of looking after others kids, I just offered to take my friends sons to the art gallery but she is thinking about it. I wont look after the kids at church because there are so many like 15 and it seems overwhelming. We really are half half and if anything leading more to no, but not enough to race out and get a vasectomy. I was on the pill but now just use condoms and just don't have sex for like a week around ovulation.... Also can I tell you a weird baby dream?? Ok I dreamt this jan 2010 while away on holiday: There is a rough looking middle aged women bent over in a room vigorously ironing a stack of towels, I come in and say, "you don't have to do it like that", and she changes before my eyes into a blonde baby staring up at me from the towels, it crawls across the towels and leaves mud on them, and looks at me with big blue eyes and sees my concern of the towels and I feel its hate coming from their eyes and the hate emanates back and forth between me and the baby very very strongly and then it gets out these knitting needles and it moves as if it is trying to come and blind me with the knitting needles and I woke up and felt the sting of the hatred still on me as I lay there going freak out what a freaky dream!!! off-putting to say the least yeah? Then last night, dreamt I was near a pier and sensed their were elephants around. There were 2 or 3 dead elephants lying on the rocks looking like all the stuffing was out of them and out of the rocks came this tiny baby elephant and I picked it up and the baby elephant really enjoyed being held and so did I...it was so cute! then it kind of just went onto other subjects you know how dreams do.. What do you guys reckon?? Thanks for listening, very relieved to spill my guts to people in the know, appreciate any advice you may have.. Shakespeare202

Hi Shakespeare, It was very interesting to read your post as I have myself thought a lot about the things you write about. I would say from what you have written that you are leaning more towards NOT having kids. You are having doubts, as most of us here do or have, because of society's expectations on us to breed. It must be especially difficult for you as church-going people, even in the secular world there is a lot of judgement about being CF, but most Christians have very strong feelings about it... Is there perhaps another church you could attend that would be more inclusive? I'm not sure how you would make up your mind about this, providing that you would even be able to get pregnant, I mean, we never know how fertile we are until we try... I'd say try to consciously and diligently weigh up the pros and cons... Also, your condition complicates things - even as a totally healthy person, children can exhaust you and destroy your relationship. I think you owe it to yourself and your husband to think of your own health and the health of your marriage as a number one priority. These are just my thoughts - good luck with this process, i know it isn't easy. Some people will always have it play on their minds, whether they are making the right decision or not (I'm pretty sure about doing the right thing but I still think about it a lot), so it may be something you have to come to terms with. Wish you all the best!

wow, Shakespeare. As I've said before on posts, your feelings are EXACTLY what I've felt.

It's like a vicious circle. Some days I'm pleased - really pleased -I don't have kids. And other times my heart breaks that I won't feel the close bond you speak of, that comes from a mother and a child.
And the answer is....ding ding ding.....too late contestants, I'm waiting for your answer.....

That's how I imagine life, almost like a game show.
You have a limited time to make the correct decisions, to move up to different levels, to earn all the points that make prizes, and then what.... will the money make you any happier, or the choices you make ( that other people think make your life lucky and fantastic, ) weigh down on you like a lead balloon.

And so my mind spins. Just as I think I've got a handle on it, something happens to plummet me back to earth.

I've decided it's impossible to find the perfect life. i think here we've all tried, as we think about things deeply.
I weigh the pros and cons, I research each decision in life, each crossroad is picked over, until the 'right' path is chosen. And then...
Down the line, well, really was the other way better ? should I have done A and not B, to create that 'perfect' life I aspire to ?
I think you're incredibly lucky to have a loving husband with a good job he enjoys. And your new career, at 40, how very fortunate !
As for the bigee - kids or not....phew. will we ever really know ?
I was a police officer for 16 years, and I wouldn't swap my life for some of the lives I encountered that was made a living hell by kids - as you say, drugs, drink, violence, abuse, murder, you name it - for all the money in China.
BUT. Just look at the loving embrace, and support some children bring.
And so the argument rages....
I'm sure in olden days we would have been all burned at the stake as witches, for our radical forward thinking tomfoolery :-D

All I can offer is that I'm 45 now, and I feel I've made the right choice for me.
Is it the perfect choice for my short life ? could I have crammed a bit more in and been happier ?
I believe happiness is found only in the moment, and you have to create your own. Therefore you must be happy in the knowledge whatever you choose was the best decision for you at this time, and try not to regret.

Having said that, I sometimes regret at times that I didn't have kids. Then again, I regret not marrying a boy called Stewart when I was 17 ( He was a VERY good looking 19 year old....tee hee ;-)
BUT was my decision right for me in this lifetime ?
I can honestly say it is, and therefore I enjoy my life to the full. I love the people around me, I laugh heartily at things I find amusing, and I have a comfortable life.
I can't ask more than that.

Good luck with your choice, and remember not to give yourself a hard time.

Thanks Firergirl, I so appreciate you weighing in here, its is interesting to hear how it seems to you, I love getting a different perspective, I am so sick of my own!! Yes the church I go to is meant to be inclusive! They do their best but yeah, it is hard, we actually were talking to someone at another church and they just told us outright to not come if we dont have kids!! At least they were honest!! But I think we are getting delegated to the single people in the church, and we are married, and it really really bugs me, I like single people, I was one for a long time and I would like the difference to be acknowledged! I guess there is no club for us MNK and I dont think there ever will be, its just too conservative even in a really creative church.. Its just I had a to wait a long time to met such a great guy and I want to also talk with married people!! We are finding it hard to make friends but these people have mostly been going for yrs so its hard to break in esp without a little one to have that common bond. We have not returned after the xmas break and will see how it goes, we like some aspects of this church though... What you say about regarding my health is spot on, and putting that and our relationship first is true, I agree...its just that gnawing feeling that maybe we should have just one....maybe...or not too, like when you hear parents say, "once you have had one you may as well more"...that freaks me out! Really? 2 or 3 or 5 ?? it makes no difference now you've had 1??? Thanks so much I really appreciate your opinion, it helps me to see that I have to come to terms one way or another. Thanks ;)

Gaynor you always make me laugh:) Life is a game show! I totally agree! It is like the pressure is just too much and your mind switches to the price is right instead! Do I want the show case or would I be better off with just one or two prizes? Can we really have it all?? Some women seem to be able to, and some definately dont. By trying to grab it all will I loose what is already in my hand??? Or will it just be so much better?? Thanks so much for your reply, it is amazing how much we can relate to all the posts here, I read them too and it is some comfort to know I am not the only one going through this. Vicious circle is right!!! I feel like I am on spin cycle constantly and I want to get off!! I am soooo lucky to have an awesome hubby, he is 'jackpot' in my books. You are so right about that, and his career is great and it is very cool I finally found a real job I can earn money doing that is never boring and I get to help people and time just flies when I do it, just like when I (occassionally) sit down to paint, time flies... I so respect the police, what a tough job!! OMgoodness!! The things you must see!! My hat goes off to you and the life experience you can draw from it, very valuable indeed. I toyed with idea when I was like 18 but I chickened out. So you speaking of seeing drugs, violence etc tear families apart, is fascinating as well as being horrifying. I watch the news, and it really freaks me out! Like I was talking to my cousins & wife as they had a new baby last year and it really put pressure on me as I am the only married in the family who doesn't have kids, and I was talking with them about all our stuff, and I said "when you watch the news doesn't it put you off?" and she said, "oh I dont watch it"!!!! Blinkers on baby, that's the way they do it!!! Blinkers on? - check, lets go!!! Lets make a person! I was amazed, and I dont know if I believe her, how can you never watch the news??? Is that even possible!! I was talking with another lady I think she regretted not having or being able to have kids and I said, "knowing my luck I'd have the next hitler"! but I mean it!! Anything could come out of me!!! The kid may not like me, may get addicted to drugs, may be a nightmare, may be ill, may go through terrible experiences, and even just technology, I was watching this show on it and they were saying our glasses will give us a description of peoples details in the street as we walk by them, I dont want that! I dont want robots telling me what to do??? At the end this scientist said the robots will either use us as food or at best keep us as pets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And this is what I would be inflicting on a child I bring into the world???!!! Freaky freak freak!!! Even just addiction is horrible, I used to smoke and it was really really hard to give up, it took yrs!!! Let alone hard drugs and all you have to be is someone who is curious, in a situation with them, and not be totally scared of them and you can be addicted!!! We know a family where there are 2 sisters and a brother and the sisters are "normal"and the brother is an addict, so it can't always jsut be bad parenting, I went to a support group for parents when I was studying acting for research, and the parents their were so normal and lovely and sweet, just like my parents!!! Except they were trying to keep their kids out of jail but lying to the police!!! And these where such nice people and the pain they were in was so so sad to see let alone experience first hand!!! I just think making a whole person is so much! Like wow, people really blow my mind, the world blows my mind, being able to (I think) make a person, how amazing is that!!! That is freaky. The bond is big though hey? The bond btw mum and bub, a nice one would be great, but still what would it do physically to me?? My mum had post natal depression and it was horrible she said. I don't want to go backwards healthwise. I figure I have maybe one more year to think about it..then crunch time. That is funny about being burnt at the stake 100's of yrs ago!! True true. We do live in a particular age. The age of choice and being bad at making decisions is my specialty. That is so good that you can clearly say you have made the right choice, that gives me hope, it is achievable. Yes I feel too that if I lived until I was 900 then I may have a shot at trying all the things I want to try and living out all the dreams I have and achieving all the goals but at best I have 40-50 more years and one life, and this is it, this ain't no dress rehersal and only I can decide and then I can't change my mind if I have a kid either...its the most permanent and hugest decision I/we will ever make.. Sounds like your sorted as the Poms would say. Your all sorted out, I wish I could feel that, even for a minute. I hope I get there Gaynor, thanks so much for your help, it is good to know you are happy. I am pretty practiced at giving myself a hard time, I need to ease up:) Have a great day, Shakespeare

"once you have had one you may as well [have] more." That makes me think of something. I know my parents weren't really trying to having kids, and people would bully them (especially my mother) into having. She got pregnant accidentally (well, their contraceptive method was calendar-based, so they weren't really trying NOT to have kids either), and here I am. So after I was born, guess what? They began getting asked "When are you going to have another one?" and when they said they wasn't planning to, they'd hear "An only child is unnatural, she'll be spoiled, she'll be lonely" and things like that. I turned out just fine. And if she hadn't gotten pregnant, or had had an abortion, well, I wouldn't exist, and - shock! - the world would still be spinning round and round. What I mean is: if you have one, they'll nag you about having two. Then you have the second one, and they'll tell you three is better for some reason. And so on. So it's best to have a kid, or kids, because YOU want to. It seems to me that people will forever try to tell you you're missing out on something, or doing something wrong.

"... and when they said they WEREN'T planning to..." I didn't re-read what I'd written, heheh :p

Shakespeare, sorry about the CFS, I have known more people than I care to remember with CFS (although back then we called it ME). The good news is that for the majority it stopped as quickly as it started, even after they had been suffering from it for 20 years +. My twin had an acute case of it for 6 months, overnight she went from doing gymnastics to needing a wheelchair because she didn't have the energy to walk.

All that aside. I cannot comment on your child situation because I never have the urge to have children, I believe I get that bond in other areas of my life. What I will say is that it's wrong to assume that you will have that close bond with your child. I'm not saying you won't, but don't assume it because having a child is a big move to take just to find out you don't have that bond with it. Remember that what you see with parents is often the 'airbrushed' version of what they are going through. Lots of mothers don't bond with their children particularly well and they are made to feel awful by other mothers so don't speak out.

I will comment on your concern about regrets. I don't see any reason to have regrets when you're older. As adults we make the decision that is right for us and to regret it later on means we are thinking that if we could do it again we would do it differently. Thing is, we wouldn't do it differently because given the exact same scenario we would clearly make the exact same choice. Regrets are for people that are unhappy in other areas of their lives, but if you have friends and family and work hard at your relationships you will know so much blessing there is no chance of you feeling unhappy. Regret also means not valuing what you have enough, it's a negative outlook rather than a positive one of being grateful for what you have.

Anyway, that's my feelings on regret. I don't do regret, when I need to make a serious decision I give it a lot of serious thought and the serious thought always comes to the same conclusion as my gut instinct! So, I say "always go with your gut instinct".

As for your friend that came off anxiety meds and then went back on them, that's not necessarily to do with the children. She may have had to come off meds for the purposes of conceiving and carrying a child, in which case it may always have been known that she would go back on them once she ceased breastfeeding. If I was to have a child I would have to come off all my meds for a good few months before trying to conceive but I would have to go back on them as soon as possible so wouldn't even do breastfeeding, I would return to my medication as soon as the child was born. It depends on the category of the medication but it is very common to come off meds for getting pregnant and return to them once the baby is born.

Hi Sabine, Thanks for your reply, that is true, some people will always want to tell you you are wrong no matter what, thanks, that does clarify that point, yes I see that clearly now. I do want to do what is right for us, specifically us, and not be deluded. I remember on Dr Phil, one sister was trying to force the other to have a 2nd child, but he was saying she should do what she feels, not work off your concerns.. Thanks heaps :) Shakespeare

Hi Random, I know your right about not assuming anything about having a child, who knows what could happen! There is nothing guaranteed that is for sure, the only guarantee is that there is no guarantee!! Tee hee!! I hear you about regrets, I see how you mean, that helps explain that as I have not understood when I hear others say they have no regrets, but I see now when you say about having a positive outlook etc that makes sense. And being grateful for what we have. That is what I am wondering, "we don't know how lucky we are" was a thought I have had recently, we do have it really good, and I am very grateful, there are so many people in this world way way worse off and I want to acknowledge that I do understand that. My friend hasn't had her baby yet, they had to find a med that didnt interfer with the pregnancy, but it is just a step backward healthwise for her and a red flag for me to notice, that if we do decide to have a kid, then potentially my health may go backwards too, doesn't mean for sure but it yeah it didnt reassure me at all about deciding in the affirmative. Thanks for your input, I really appreciate your help, I just feel so snowed under by this and cant seem to find a solid footing. It helps to hear your feelings as it is a great sounding board. Have a good one, Shakespeare :)