BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Repression or insight?

I'm new to the forum and was so happy to find a place where saying you're not going to ever have kids doesn't make you a crazy person. I'm 28 now and I was lucky enough to marry a fantastic man who shares my goals and outlook on life. That being said, I have some serious worries about my feelings about not having kids. I have some medical issues that I've known all my life would probably mean I couldn't be pregnant - so I never grew up dreaming of being a mom. My extensive surgical history makes pregnancy and childbirth seem like 'elective surgery' to me - why anyone would put their bodies through that is beyond me. I can't think of anything worse (personally). When I'm with my friends and their children (seems like everyone either has a baby or is pregnant these days) all I can think about is how relieved I am that I get to go home with my husband, drink a bottle of wine and watch whatever we want for as long as we want! All this being said, I'm a psychologist by trade and I can't help but wonder if my lack of desire to have kids isn't just a repression of my fear of carrying a baby? I don't think so because I know surrogacy is an option and I don't see that as the great solution to the baby problem. But then I wonder, will we regret this decision when we're old and gray? We're already losing our friends one by one to a lack of babysitters and bouts with pink eye. If either of us passes away the other will be alone - not that adult children are the answer, I wouldn't be thrilled at the idea of either of our parents living with us. My parents were great and neither of my brothers ever call or visit (other than to ask for money. What is the allure that I'm missing? I can't think of a good that isn't far outweighed by a bad. To make matters more complicated, my husband says that he's sure he doesn't want kids but, had he married a woman dead set on having kids, he probably would have had them. Then I think, would I do the same if he were desperate to have kids (through surrogacy or adoption of course) and I think I would if it meant his happiness. I wish I could have children naturally so I could be sure that my choice is a conscious one and not some deep seated repression! I work at a childrens hospital as a child psychologist - was this career choice just a sublimation of that desire into a more acceptable (less scary) form? Now I do sound like a crazy person. Any insight would be so appreciated! Any regrets from older couples without kids? Anyone out there thought of any of these issues with any resolution whatsoever? How do you deal with mother in laws who assure you that "you'll come around" or that "God will be the one who'll decide"? Rambling in Texas :) Would love to hear others thoughts on these matters

God love you for puting yourself and your feelings just out there. Not many people would do that and I truly feel, profession or not, why not?

I'm facinated when people really don't think that the human being on the other side of the table doesn't maybe have some thoughts too.

In my work, I really see just a myriad of people and if I could just couple it down to one thing - many ingredients, but a common denominator, there's an insecurity of something real -something substantial - maybe it's just lonliness, but we all have it.

It comes in Phases. It comes in childhood setting the mold for peers and on up to adulthood.

Child rearing isn't a fantasy. Unless you really accept going into or through a door that is dedicated, not only to someone else (the child) you'll have the other extremeties you mention about freedom, unpredictable timing, emotions, not necessarily your own that you'll have to contend with as well.

Many women can find it opens a field of themselves they never knew. Others, they've had children to fill a void and now the children are older and feel the thing that filled the void creating an entirely different void altogether.

You are accute, honestly when you mention getting older and what happens if someone in a relationships parts or dies = I've heard that from a lot of people and those people are ones actually with children. There aren't any guarantees.

So, I guess, from where I am - I have a daughter, but my ex husband sued to stop child support and in that small town actually won. So, I'm not with my 12 yr old daughter at this time.

But whether or not you chose to have children or not or have a child and lose them, either through unfortunate circumstances or just politics - you're at home in the Universe...you know? Until that's something that actually sinks into a person'soul, no matter what we build around us: money, relationship, house, family, even that chocolate fudge sunday...we won't be able to connect with it, that next great thing.

What ever a situation is, we learn from it or can if we chose to..even if it's reluctantly. If you are comfortable with yourself and secure enough to free fall lol, you're in a good position to possibly learn from both having children or even going it alone.

Either way, it's, to me anyway, going to be love that takes us from any unknown to an even greater one

Wow, thanks for posting. I have been visiting this forum for several months now, but have been reluctant to post anything, not sure why. But reading your post this morning, moved me because your story hit soooo close to home. I am 35, married for 5 years (together for 13) and we have just finished 2 long years of trying to conceive with no luck. When I was growing up I never thought about having children and leaned towards not. I grew up in a pretty non-traditional house with a very non maternal/nurturing mother who did not follow a typical family model support system. She was never close to her family and therefore didnt really engage my brother and I with our relatives. My father died when we were young. As a result, I never really dreamed of the typical family lifestyle with a white picket fence and 2.3 children. Eventually I met most amazing person who showed me how wonderful a 'normal' family can be and after many many years we decided to try to have children when I was finally ready. Unfortunately, it didnt work out for whatever reason (after several doctors and many treatments, they never shared a concrete diagnosis, arrgghh). Now, we are settling into our 'new' future and I am overwhelmed with questions and insecurities including every single thing you mentioned in your post. It is an interesting crossroads to be at as I watch every single person around me have children and fall away into that life. I dont know anyone who has chosen the Child-Free life so I have been feeling pretty alone. I feel like we are fine with our new path (freely chosen or not), but I am looking for guidence from those who are 10, 20, 30, 40 years in front of me to provide me with some insight as to expectations and pitfalls in future stages. I worry for our future. I know children are no guarantee of anything (my family is a perfect example of that). But, I worry that we will be bored with each other, with our life. What do we have to look forward to if we dont have a child to coach through school, walk down the aisle, visit at summer camp, throw a birthday party for? My husband says he is fine, and we are definitly 'live each day to its fullest' type of people. We relish our child free lifestyle every day. But, how long can this last? Will I wake up in 20 years with an empty feeling? Can I find that type of fullfillment in my career? With my dogs? (I am a major dogperson) I never really thought I would have kids, but I guess, somewhere in the back of my mind, that option was available. Now that it is off the table, I am forced to explore this other world that seems so unfamiliar. I know there are other options (adoption, suregacy etc)but we dont feel that is for us. We are considering becoming foster parents, but that is a long and scary road that we may or may not pursue. Sorry to ramble, but I feel like we have similar questions, and wanted you to know you are not alone.

I think what the majority of us have figured out about why we want to be childfree is that we really just have no desire to have kids. When people ask "why?," we can give reasons about why we enjoy being childfree, the proverbial icing on the cake: more money, free time, sleeping in late, or as you said get to relax with a bottle of wine and watch TV, etc... But, if you actually wanted children, you'd feel it, ache for it, and wouldn't care about giving up any of that.

Mine and my husband's lives would be a lot simpler without 5 cats (three of which are special needs), but I've only lived 6 months of my life without a cat in my home (freshman year of college), and I felt so lonely for one I couldn't stand it. People who don't like cats or pets don't understand it. How can we live with all the furballs, scooping the kitty litters (yes, 2 of them) twice a day, making sure Katie gets her pills every morning, listening to Penny (the deaf cat) meow at the top of her lungs, Lilly has back problems so we have ramps up to the tops of the dressers and beds, etc... To someone who doesn't feel the need for a pet, it sounds like misery. But, it doesn't bother me. It's just my life, my life with my husband and kitties.

But, I digress. I can't comment on your own psychological reasons, for not wanting to give birth. Childbirth doesn't really scare me (I'm not a pain wimp), it's the idea of having to take care of a child for the rest of my life that puts me in a panic. My husband, like MANY men could take or leave kids. The fact of the matter is, men's lives are not nearly as affected by having children as a woman's is. Most Dads I know are just glorified baby-sitters, watching the kids for 2 hours on a Saturday so mom can run some errands in peace (and they act like the should get a medal for it too). My husband always thought he would have kids "because that's what people do." It wasn't until he met me that he understood people don't have to have children. Truthfully, I think many people just have kids because "that's what people do," not because they actually felt a need for them. Otherwise, most pregnancies would be planned, and we all know that most aren't.

I try not to worry about the future. Hopefully my husband and I will grow old together, and I won't have to be worried about being alone. But, unlike most people, I do actually have a childfree, elderly relative (in her 70's). My Aunt could never have children (medical reasons), but she is by no means a lonely, inactive, puttering old lady. She has a good marriage, volunteers in her community, travels all over the country, and gets tons of visits from friends and family (like me). If I even lead half the life she has had, I'll know that I will be fine.

I suggest just spending some time reading posts on this forum. We all have questions, concerns, and the occasional rant that help us all understand ourselves (and the rest of the world) a little better.

ltlrvr, I was so bummed to have to wait until I got home from work to respond to your post (website blocked unfortunately!). I can't tell you how nice it was to read what you had to say and realize that there's someone out there with the same thoughts and fears...I even got teary eyed and goosebumpy reading your post. I'm happy to have someone out there in the world who understands but I'm sorry to hear about everything you've had to go through to get to this point. I do know three older couples who are childfree (either by choice or by chance) and they seem to be really happy. Two of the three couples lived abroad (one on a house boat in the Netherlands!) and they've each achieved their dreams of being doctors, lawyers, opera singers, etc. They're also fantastic aunts and uncles and they seem to have better relationships with their nieces and nephews than their nieces and nephews do with their own parents. It's nice to know they're out there, but I don't know them well enough to really ask the tough questions - like about regrets or fears they may have. I totally resonate with your worries about getting bored. We've been together for 10 years (married for 2.5) and there hasn't been a boring day yet - but the other day we were out at lunch and there was a lull in conversation (which I'm sure happens to everyone sometimes) and I couldn't help but wonder if eventually it wouldn't be nice to have another person in the mix. I quickly snapped out of it though and considered that the other mini person would likely be screaming and throwing mashed peas everywhere. I also considered that all my friends who now have children talk about with their spouses is their children...where they'll go to school, how they slept, when the next doctor's appointment is, etc. I enjoy conversation with my husband so much right now (and for the last 10 years) that I can't imagine anything worse...so maybe not having something to talk about for a few minutes every once in a while is better than having conversation consumed by kid worries. It sounds like you're in a similar situation where all your friends are out there getting pregnant or having kids. I will say, it's hard to not want a baby shower or some of the attention they get (if I'm being totally honest with myself...and now with you). However, they seem to be fighting way more with their spouses and they spend a lot more time apart (ironically) than before. For example, my friend Kelli just came alone to a party we were having because it was easier to leave the baby with her husband than try to find a sitter or bring her. On top of that, she and her husband are constantly fighting about money. Not to mention the whole "here, take her" phenomenon as soon as her husband walks in the door from work. Kelli did tell me that she used to fantasize about being a stay at home mom, walking her baby in the park, spending time with other moms, etc. but that the reality has been different. She says that daytime tv gets really old, and that now she counts the days to her mommy's day outs more than anything else. Of course, she ends every negative comment with something like, "but I wouldn't trade her for anything." I wonder how much of that is really just denial - I mean, how miserable would you really be if you admitted to yourself that you made a mistake that you really can never take back? On top of all this, Kelli's baby is showing signs of autism! I worry about that empty feeling too. Will work and us be enough? Then I look at my mother in law who put all of herself in to her kids and is constantly disappointed (we never stay long enough when we visit, we don't call enough, etc). She's actually said to me, "what will be your legacy to the world if you don't have kids?" I go back and forth between feeling sad for her that she feels she didn't contribute anything else to the world and worrying about whether or not she's somehow right! Finally, you mentioned the foster care route. We've talked about this option too - and we have friends who recently adopted their foster son! They had a great experience with this kid and they've decided to become his parents (which is crazy because they're our age and their son is now 16!). I like to think of them because it helps me to think that if we do get bored out of our minds or someday we really feel that we need a child in our lives, this is an option. I only worry sometimes that we'll regret not having one that is a product of the two of us. That seems selfish in some way but there is a part of my that's curious about what a little one with our genes would be like...I don't wonder that enough to want to carry one or take care of one but it sucks to have the thought lurking. I can't tell you how therapeutic it was to "talk" with you about this. I wish you were in Dallas so that we could be your childfree friends :-) Not sure if you're spiritual or not, but I'll leave you with a quote I found (ironically in a book I got our nephew for his dedication) that's helped me a lot from Romans 12:2: Do not be shaped by this world. Instead be changed within by a new way of thinking. Then you will be able to decide what God wants for you. And you will be able to know what is good and pleasing to God and what is perfect.

Dear Gabree03,

i knew I had to answer your post when I read this. I can totally relate to that thought, although I'm no psychologist myself.

I have known that I didn't want to have children since I was in the 4th grade, when my teacher explained in class, maybe with too much details for 9 year olds, how babies actually get out of their mom's bodies. I knew on the spot that I would never do that. And growing up I was so silly to think that nobody in my generation would be so stupid to put their bodies through so much for a stupid baby. Well, I discovered in my early 20s that I was the odd one out and it was really a shock. I remember once confessing to one of my closest friends how horrified about the whole physical thing I was and she asked me: Would you adopt then? I remember saying: "hell, no I don't want a child at all". Because, actually, my interest in kids was non-existent and that was the whole point. But I digress.

10 years after this conversation, after years and years hearing that I would change my mind, that there must be something behind my not wanting babies, after listening to friends, relatives and people in the media saying that there is no nothing like having children etc (I don't need to go on, everybody here knows), well after ten years I met my husband. And he could not imagine a future without children.

And then the idea that there was something wrong with me, latent all my life took over my life. I started to look for psychological reasons to my being like this. My 4th grade teacher was to blame for my "trauma", I even found an article on a British paper about tokophobia and I was googling for days...

So I decided I was a freak, that I was missing what seemed to give everybody elses's life meaning, and it was all because some repression. So here I am getting pregnant as part of a plane to force myself into being normal ("face your fears").
I have absolutely no happy memories of the pregnancy, I suffered post traumatic stress after birth, I felt no joy in the baby for months... So now I felt more like a freak than before, because as everybody knows "you will fall in love when you see its little face" and "it is different when it is yours".

Tortured by guilt and depression I landed in therapy. I started off with all my pseudo-psychological lingo of traumas and phobias. My therapist was very sceptic about the trauma thing. After endless sessions talking about my life before husband, my changing countries all the time, my independent lifestyle, my absolutely normal inhibited and happy sex life, well all lead us to believe that I had never wanted children. As simple as that. It was just not in me. I was reassured that I was not the only one, but I must admit I didn't believe her till I found this forum.

I think looking too much into things, searching for some truth hidden behind somewhere can end up making you have doubts about the things that were most obvious to you. Especially if you are in the minority. So like that silly song used to say: listen to your heart! And enjoy that your husband is happy CF.


Rambling in Luxemburg :-)

Gabree03: I say insight, not repression! For my book, Families of Two: Interviews with Happily Married Couples without Children by Choice, I interviewed over 100 couples, and have talked with hundreds more childfree since it was published, and I can say you are definitely not crazy. It seems perfectly reasonable given your history why you would have major concerns. It seems the bottomline question is -- if you did not have the medical issues, would you want a child? Part of making the decision about parenthood is asking oneself what experience(s) you are looking for through having children, and thinking seriously about how one might get that experience another way. In other words, is parenthood the Only way to get the experiences you are looking for with kids? Like you, many times people find it is not. Many childfree have occupations that involve children, they become big brothers/sisters and the like and help children in need, they are great aunties, godmothers, and the list goes on. There are many ways to have relationships with children in life; parenthood is just one way, and the one that requires the biggest life commitment. So it's likely not repression as much as being aware of the role you want kids to play in your life. Re your hubbie who sounds like he has not closed the door to parenthood, from what I have seen with similar couples, it is a very good idea to keep those communication lines very open about this, and think hard for yourself about whether you would become a parent "for" him if he moves closer to wanting them. A big decision! ~Laura lauracarroll.com

Dear all, thanks so much for your replies and [b]insights[/b]. It's almost strange to me how helpful it's been to get this all out in the world and to hear that others feel the same way. Rambling in Luxemburg, your story was so helpful to hear! I always hear the same thing, "it's different when it's yours" and although difficult to say (thanks for that by the way) it's somehow releasing to hear that that's not always the case. You are so right about being true to yourself. When I talked to my therapist about all this she said, "so what if it's a repression of some sort? Are you happy? Maybe you sublimated your feelings for kids into your profession, but who's to say that sublimation isn't somehow equal to or BETTER than what your life would be if you had kids?" I think what she was trying to get at was that maybe I do have a subconcious (clearly very deeply subconcious) desire to have children (a desire created and/or influenced by hormones, social norms and pressures, expectations, etc.)- but the fact that that "desire" may exist doesn't make it the right choice for my life. Thanks again friends!

Thank you very much for sharing that thought, I had never seen it like that and it makes perfect sense. Even if the baby thing had been in my subconscious (hormones, social pressure, love for my husband...) it never meant I was repressing something in the bad sense of the word. It was more like why not repress something that we know it is not, as you put it, the right choice for us?