BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids What's up with all the baby-obsessed men? - Rant!!

The more I read about men issuing ultimatums to their wives, the more I wonder - is it an attempt to keep the wives in "their place" (in the one down position), dependent financially and/or emotionally? To prove that their reproductive parts do, indeed work? (demonstrating their "manhood"). Are they threatened by their wives careers and/or independence? Trying to prove who's "Boss" in the relationship? I am not saying that men should not want fatherhood. But, considering that they will not have to do the lion's share of the work, it is hardly that much of a sacrifice, compared to that of their wives. It seems to me that whoever is going to make the larger of the sacrificing should have the larger part of the say in the decision. What bothers me is the nastiness that some of them display, and the extreme pressure that they exert on their wives - issuing ultimatums and threatening to end the marriage. Really loving behavior, dont't you think? (NOT)!! Why would a woman want to have a baby with a man who does not value her or the marriage? My huband DID leave me over this issue, even though he was sterile and could not produce a child. His want of a child did not have anything to do with any love for me, or he would not have treated me so badly. To want a baby but not care about your marriage is putting the cart of front of the horse, dont't you think?!? Why does the desire for a chld outweigh the committment to one's marriage? (For better or worse, etc). I don't remember the vows saying "only if I get everything I want". If I had wanted, say, a house on the beach, and my husband couldn't afford it, or didn't think I should need it to be happy, should I leave him becasue he would not get it for me? Are marriage partners "entitled" to demand parenthood of their spouses? What do you think? Or am I just preaching to the choir (LOL)!! Rant over.

Oh gosh, lol, this kind of taps into a conversation (rant) I had with my husband. It went something along the lines of

"Chrimany! What is with men who cater to women who act like their an immature 12-14, bounce up and down and scream "HE-hEEeeeeee" clasp their hands in front of their chest, with a follow up hand-clapping, "Goody" when a man buys them something they want? Whether the person can afford it or not doesn't seem to matter. Don't they realize that the next item is going to be even more demanding with an eon-long pout if they don't get it?"

Well, he patted me on the head, like dear, dear, child, don't you understand? "I don't think you quite get the man's perspective. We're fairly certain women like that don't love us, even if they say they do, but we're rigged to want to be a hero. We want other men to acknowledge we've done a good job and the snow-job we get from "bling-queens", until they break or exhaust us, feels better than nothing at all. After some time, the emptiness isn't worth it. But most men dont get it until they're run through the cleaners, have no money or the woman finally gets bored and finds someone else to pay attention to them. If we're just getting out of a relationship we're even less likely to look to far into it, because we want to stop feeling badly. We don't realize we're about to feel even worse!"

The man really should write a book about how men think! So, with children, there are some decent fathers out there, some really good ones, but as most of my friends are male they pretty much say similar things my husband said. They really just want a mini-them, something or legacy to leave behind and someone that will always look up to them as a hero. They don't mind providing the income to make that happen.

I agree, though, unless there are large discussions before hand, it's the woman who will do most of the care-taking, worrying, emotional giving. Oddly enough, though they provide all of that, they're simply exhausted by the time the father comes home and not quite as much fun as the parent who hasn't seen the child all day and spends an hour with them if that after dinner. It really is a self-less job.

I think the thing is that most men want to "reproduce" not be "fathers." We women have all the control when it comes to reproduction. I'm a biologist (molecular genetics). A female's lifetime fecundity is solely dependent on how much she wants to reproduce, where as a man's is dependent on how many times he can get a woman to reproduce with him. I love my husband. I adore him. He's kind, smart, supportive of me, love our cats, super silly, and never fails to make me smile. But, I know he'd make a lackluster father (likewise, if forced to procreate I'd probably be a lackluster mom, just going through the motions). It's a good thing I knew I didn't want kids before we got married. However, he just assumed he'd have kids, even though he doesn't particularly like them because "that's what people do." I accidentally got pregnant twice (you can go back and read about it in some of my posts), and the second time my husband actually contemplated us keeping the kid. The first time we were entirely unprepared financially, so he was full on board with terminating the pregnancy. The second time, he figured that since we were doing pretty good "we" could handle it. I told him, "who is this 'we,' you got a mouse in your pocket?" I had just started my graduate degree, full time. I'm the kind of person who knows her limitations. I don't like to stretch myself thin. I knew if I had a baby, I'd have to quit school. He said, "We can afford child care, you can go to school still." As though that is all there is, the simple act of "going." What about homework, research, projects? What about all the other stuff I also take care of usually, like the grocery shopping, the cats, most the heavy duty house work? I replied, "Let's put it this way. Imagine I die during child birth or something. You can afford to put the kid in daycare and go to work. But, when you get home, it's all you. Feeding it, changing it, playing with it, reading to it, bathing it, dealing with crying... 100 more things I can't even think of because I have always avoided dealing with kids. Are you going to do all of that?" His reply, "yeah." I then said, "Okay, if I'm still here, you going to do all that still?" He went quiet for a bit. An already long story shorter, he finally realized the impact a baby has on a woman's life is substantially larger than on a man's. His life wouldn't change much if we had kids, but mine would. And, I didn't want it. I guess I wanted to be just like him, like most men, kids or no. I didn't want any kind of major responsibility. From what I've seen with friends and family, Dad's are like glorified baby-sitters. You trust them with the kids for a couple hours at the park on Saturday, but not for an extended length of time. I know there are exceptions to the rule, of course, but my husband wasn't going to be one of them. So, we've been married for 6 years, and are very happy. I don't see him looking longingly at babies, or offering to take our nieces or nephews to Chuckie Cheese. He may have liked the idea of spreading his genes, but he didn't like the idea of parenting. And, I agree. Neither do I. So, if BOTH people aren't on board, babies should definitely not happen. I think that's what most men don't get.

Hi Lady M, Wow I've never encountered anything like that before... maybe it's a culture thing... I'm in Australia. Most of the men here Don't want kids and if they have one... they go for a walk to the shops and don't come back! lol.... shouldn't laugh, but it's an ironic twist to what you were saying. I've actualy witnessed countless occasions when it's been the woman making the demands and leaving. In saying all of that though, I really agree with your post.. esp this bit: "... I don't remember the vows saying "only if I get everything I want" ..." I've never heard it put that way before and it was enlightening to hear :) I think there's alot of inbalance in marriages, there's always one that will compromise more, but if you don't want to compromise then the other should. I'm really sorry about what happened with your husband... maybe somewhere down the line, you'll meet someone more respectful to what you want as well. <3 xx J

"To want a baby but not care about your marriage is putting the cart of front of the horse, dont't you think?!?"

Well said, Lady M. I'm right on the same page with you. I think the males pushing wives to have babies may SOMETIMES be out of insecurity.I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush, which is why I said sometimes. Maybe they feel the need to prove that they are indeed men... machismo????lol. It's funny before we got engaged I told my husband I didn't believe in changing my last name, he didn't even FLINCH! He is so UNMACHO, I love it. Anyway, girlfriends of mine said that their husbands thought it important for them to change last names...they all want kids. I wonder if it's all somehow related?????

It seems to me that whoever is going to make the larger of the sacrificing should have the larger part of the say in the decision.

Another meaningful statement. Men don't have to go through all of the physical and emotional disruptions, so they have NERVE pressuring thier wives!

For REAL!

Just look at the post headings of recent weeks: "I don't, husband does." And the stories these poor women are telling! It breaks my heart and makes me angry for them all at the same time! I've truthfully been too enraged to reply, in fear I'll say something too awful and get the boot, but it's been out of control lately.

Stick to your guns, ladies, that's all I can hope for you. You WILL do 98% of the work and it's just not fair to have a child if you don't want it with 100% of your soul.

Dolyn - your husband sounds like a gem! With regard to the control issue - perhaps some men are feeling the loss of their superiority in our society, and as you said, women pretty much control conception - could it be an attempt to wrest control in an area they lack? Resentment of women, feeling that not only do women control reproduction, but indeed their (mens') access to sex as well? I'm speaking here in general terms - not that all men feel this way. A lot of men seem to feel that they are "entitled" to have access to womens' bodies on demand, and that their needs should somehow take precedence over womens' feelings and needs. I however, also think that much of this could be unconscious, probably as a result of our genetic past, and what was necessary for survival of our species before we became more "civilized". I will probably get flamed for sure for saysing this!! (LOL)

I don't know how it works by other churches, but if you marry Catholic, you can have your marriage annulled if your spouse refuses to give you children.

Ladies....I am in complete agreement with all of you. I am still amazed that I am not a FREAK, and that so many women feel the same as I do about being CF. My husband pretty much has given me the ultimatum. "Have a baby or I am gone." At almost 43 I just can't see starting the process of child rearing and he won't consider adoption or fostering an older child. That would have been a sacrifice for me in order to save my marriage, but he won't even consider it. If I somehow got hit over the head, lost my sanity, and decided to try to get pregnant, I have been assured by my "LOVING" husband that if I can't conceive he will leave me anyway. Why try when it is obvious that he doesn't value our relationship enough to want me in his life no matter what. As most of you already know he has served me with divorce papers. That happened less than a week ago. He harbors a lot of hurt and resentment because I did not give him children, even though for 16 yrs of our marriage I said "no" to him. Too many issues came into play here...his irresponsibility and immaturity, financial problems, family problems, emotional issues, etc. etc. He does not respect my decision at all that I have considered the reality of our life situation and as a result I would not want to bring a baby into our stressful lives. All he knows is that I have "cheated" him out of his big dream in life. He claims that the reason he hasn't left me before now was because he'd hoped I'd change my mind. Well, he has barely grown up in the last several years so there was no way I'd give in to him. I think he was a coward by staying with me. I believe that one of the reasons he is leaving me is because he wants control now. He feels I have had control over the sex and baby making, and now he can see nothing but his own selfish need to procreate and feel like a man who can leave a legacy behind. Aside from the fact that he went to school for 8 years while married to me and he got two master's degrees, I don't see a darn thing worth passing on to his children as a legacy. A selfish, self absorbed, insecure, and unrealistic approach to creating a family is just a recipe to hurt his innocent children, if he ever does get that far in his life. In spite of all he thinks he has accomplished, in so many ways he doesn't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.