BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Buddhism Your Thoughts on Killing

Okay, lets take a deep breath.

Lisa, you are completely in line with the BellaOnline system. It is entirely up to you as the moderator to invite non-Buddhists into your threads, or to keep it strictly Buddhist based. Your intentions are clear and true, and you are in no way naive or off topic with this thread. As you made clear also, as long as things stay respectful. IMO, when angry name calling and insults are being tossed around, the respectfulness has diminished. Which I feel it unfortunately has in this thread, and not by non-Buddhists.

Having clarified the role of the moderator, I have to say that Alexandra, yes, you have misunderstood. Lisa gets to make the decision on the flavor and direction of her forum threads, and the participants get respectfully to blend into individual threads, or opt to sit certain ones out if they feel themselves getting too emotional to remain respectful.

Shay

Where has there been Anger and name-calling?

Where has there been disrepsect?

Why is feeling strongly about a subject such as this, and expressing that intensity, looked upon as being angry or disrespectful?

If you could but meet me, if you could but engage with me, you would find that I am devoid of Anger, and i have a deep and abiding respect for all beings.
But it doesn't mean that I cannot argue with them when I disagree with them.
Debate is one of the basic tenets of Buddhism.

Where do you therefore feel this thread has become rude angry or disrespectful?

Given that I had been primary choice of Moderator here, but was unable to take on the role due to excessive commitments, (So well done Lisa, for rightfully gaining this position) I do know what the role of Moderator entails. particularly as I am a Moderator on three other Fora.

Thank you for your comments, Shay.

OK, I've stayed out of this thread because I do eat meat, so didn't see where my opinion in this one would help.

Now I'm stepping in as a moderator.

Everyone needs to realize that these forums are global.

We here in the US speak very casually, other countries not so much.

Alexandra and I had just such an misunderstanding several months ago over our semantics. Once we realized that niether side was being snide or name-calling, the discussion went much smoother.

This is a common misunderstanding in discussions with folks from different countries.

So everyone take a deep breath. And just read the points being made, without trying to infer the emotion behind it. It is just too difficult to do when we are writing and not speaking and can't hear the voice of the other person.

Thanks guys!

Oh, and Alexandra - saying that you were the "primary choice" is not a good choice of words. You have no way of knowing whether Lisa had applied at the same time as you.

Ack- I tried, I really tried not to respond to this.

The argument I've always heard is; why do humans have incisors and canines if we are not meant to eat meat? We are equipped with the teeth to eat both meat and vegetables- so we function best on both. Ok, I'mreally leaving this time.

LOL, Michelle!

Just like Lisa said, even Buddhists vary in their beliefs about eating meat.

In the Taoist philosophy there is a season and a reason for everything, and every choice is an integral part of the whole. In the Tao, hard rules and dogma are for other people to indulge in! We just sit back and smile at it all...

Shay

I was accepted and began training. Then had to withdraw. In view of what is happening here currently, i think the right person got the job.

My point is that for me, the dogma of "shoulds" and "should nots" exists only in the minds of human beings who do not accept life as it flows before them, and has always flowed. It is perhaps against your belief system that there is a reason and a purpose for everything, and that nothing could happen on a quantum level that wasn't meant to - but this is my belief.

I didn't post here to argue, or to defend my beliefs. I posted upon moderator Lisa's invitation. I tend to lean toward her live and let live philosophy, and deeply respect her quiet acceptance of all philosophies. She is a good moderator.

[b]"Many are the paths which lead to Heaven or Earth, as the faith is not important. It is our actions and intentions which determine the rate of our ascention."

-Dharma Tsu, Tao Buddhist Master[/b]

Shay
...water is not nutrient rich, it is a nutrient...

This is very much in line with some Zen Buddhist thinking, which of course isn't a surprise because Zen emerged out of a combining of Taoist and Buddhist teachings. I want to do an article on this eventually...

Thanks for your vote of confidence. Obviously I do have a lot to learn on the moderator front.

I don't think any of your posts veered into outright anger or name-calling. But I will say, not knowing you at all and just reading these posts for the first time, that to me the tone did come off as overly judgmental/critical/aggressive, as opposed to just arguing your point. HOWEVER, I know that that can often happen when people are expressing their views in written form, as I have been told in the past that I came off that way, when I didn't feel that was my intention or tone at all. And I also know from other Buddhist forums that issues related to vegetarianism and interpretations of the first precept can be quite contentious as well.

Personally, I don't think I have anything more to add right now, but am leaving the thread open. Within Buddhism I think the whole debate re: vegetarianism is really part of a larger debate about the role of certain sutras, the Buddha's instructions re: monks vs. laypeople, the purpose of certain guidelines as interpreted by Theraveda vs. Mahayana vs. Vajrayana etc. so perhaps we can get some threads going on those themes in the future.

Ok, so I'm adding my two-cents and in this economy, it's worth less...

I don't know Buddhist or Taoist philosophy, and I don't know about man's biological dietary predispositions. Heck, I'm still unclear whether man can or cannot thrive on a meatless diet because there is so much conflicting research!

All I know is--and I say this at the risk of sounding like some teary child horrified at the lion eating the zebra on a nature show--the closer I observe animals, the more I see that ANIMALS DON'T LIKE TO BE EATEN!!!

I don't care about the circle of life and yadda yadda. This is my question for God: Why do animals have to eat animals? The food chain could be shortened to just plants and animals. Animals die and decay to nourish the soil for the plants. We eat plants. Period.

It's easy for us to "reason" why we should eat meat because we're at the top of the food chain. One might say humans are sentient with superior brain function, but even humans with low IQs know fear and the horror of being preyed upon.

I see animals with fear in their eyes...sadness and horror at having to watch their babies being taken from their sides and devoured. There was this show about taboo culinary food around the world:

1. Monkeys were under a dining table, with their head poking up from a hole in the center. While the monkeys were still alive, the tops of the skulls were sawed open so the diners could pick and eat their brains.
2. Whole carp would be tossed into a hot wok, stir fried and then plated. The chef sliced the tail end to halfway up the fish while it was still gasping for breath. Diners considered it fresh!
3. Speaking about freshness, the Japanese rever freshness so in one restaurant, they serve a bowl of hot broth next to a bowl of living little guppie-like fish. They scoop up some guppies and then dip into the hot broth and eat them.
3. They also cut up live octopus and eat the writhing tentacles. The danger is one can choke if the suckers attach to the throat.

I'm sure there are more examples, but why is there no respect for life there? Monkeys are sentient beings! Can you imagine the horror of watching someone chew at your arms? Gives a whole new meaning to having someone pick your brains!

I eat meat so I'm not putting anyone else down. It's just that in my perfect vision of a perfect world, animals would eat fruit. LOL. No killing, no suffering. Every animal would be free to enjoy the fullness of life.

Why, God, why did You create such a long food chain?