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Bylen & Shay,
Your personal stories have been inspirational to me as I can identify myself in many your experiences. I was amazed by the fact that you both have walked through such difficult past, and yet have become women of beauty (for me, beauty comes from an intelligent mind and a compassionate heart) and wisdom that are apparent in your posts. Perhaps, difficulties make us humble, and the pain gets us on our knees. It is in this place, we can truly examine ourselves and live again.

I am re-reading your posts today from both and also your story on the "Miracle" forum, Bylen. I have decided to bring out an older article on self-love, and start a new thread for it. I hope by sharing our stories, it enables others hope. BellaOnline ALERT: Raw URLs are not allowed in these forums for security reasons. Please use UBB code. If you don't know how to do UBB code just post here for help - we will help out!

Thank you so much Michelle and Cara.

I think Shay said it the best. Sometimes you stand on the precipice between insanity and enlightment and you have to make the choice.

Shay, without long detail, my mother was the same way. She was a bitter jealous woman who would verbally abuse in order to keep you at a distance. She also brainwashed me... against my father.
Because of my background, yes, I married an abuser also. Between my mother and my husband, I had completly lost who I was. But always there was a voice inside of me screaming "You don't know me. This is not who I am."
I realized that ultimatly it was my fault. I allowed it. Then I had to have the courage to change it. I started saying no and asking for respect. Man, they got so mad at me. They were not happy when I "rebelled". That's what my mother called it. I was 40 years old. They didn't know how to react, or how to change. I told my husband no more abuse. If it happened one more time I would have to leave.I told my mother,"I am here with open arms ready to love you, but I can't do that unless you are willing to love me back." I even explained to them what would have to happen if they didn't stop the abuse.
Neither of them are in my life anymore. I didn't leave them mad, or angry. I understand that they very well may not have known how to stop abusing. Whether that is the case or not, one can not sacrifice oneself to the sickness of others, even if you understand and have compassion for it. I tried discussing it with them and explaining what I needed. Neither of them would discuss it with me and said they didn't want to hear it. In the end I had no choice except to remove myself from the situation.

I think the only way we gain wisdom is to go through pain and come out the other side. Denying it, ignoring it or trying to get around it doesn't work.
It's like I tell my daughter when she is faced with something she is dreading doing...
" The only way around it is through it. Face it and get it done, or put it off and face it forever."
We deal with the same pain over and over again. It's only when we decide to face it and get it done that we don't have to face it again.

Yeah it's been a tough life But lets face it, it was my doings. A lot of the pain we face is brought on by ourselves. If I had been stronger in the beginning I wouldn't have had to face as much pain.. I've just been spending a lot of time correcting the stuff I messed up.
I've always been the type that couldn't resist examining everything about life
Sometimes, as in the Matrix, I just wish I'd take the blue pill for once, but Nooo.. always gotta go for the red one!

Bylen

Bylen,
For me, the many enlightened moments in my life have come from my deepest pain. It is through these moments of insane pain, we can finally let go.

Michelle,
Thank you so much for starting this thread. I think we have all benefited by so many wonderful posts here with much wisdom and beauty.

Cara

Cara:

You are right, life forces us to let go when something becomes too painful to hold on to. Why is it that we humans fight so hard to hang on to it, when letting go will actually free us?
We're funny creatures,aren't we? The most wonderful experience in the world to me is when that light, after a dark tunnel, finally hits your face and warms your soul.

Bylen

Bylen, it's like we have lived parallel lives. I have also removed myself from my mother's life. And I also have taken ultimate responsibility for my patterns. What I have come to understand, is that we are all born with belief systems wired in, and make choices based on these innate belief systems. We each live in our own "micro-universes" and when beliefs clash between mother and daughter, we have the choice to fight to be understood, to the bitter end; or to save grace and depart with the understanding that at the end of the day, it isn't about winning and losing, right and wrong, good and evil. It's about moving forward, and taking the daring steps into seeking who you are, for yourself and no one else. Even though it is natural for children to look up to their parents for unconditional love, guidance and understanding, eventually, if one is to live in peace, it is essential to grow into the understanding that one is not entitled to these things. How freeing it is, to simply let go of the "need" for approval - to drop the reliance on somebody else to validate who you are. As painful as it is to accept that your mother does not know you, and never will, it is equally enlightening.

Shay

Shay,

Yes, life is about moving forward, and having the courage to do so. The acceptance that no one is "entitled" to unconditional love was perhaps the most freeing part of my healing. Our modern psychology and self-help movement tell us that we are meant to be loved by our parents, siblings, and partners....etc. When the reality falls short of our expectations, there is inevitable pain. I have come to accept who people are and their capacity of love. It's a wonderful and powerful thing when we stop looking for others' approval for our self-worth. I think it's through all the painful steps we have taken, that we can finally learn how to love ourselves.

Cara

Hi all:

Wow, what a wonderful conversation we've got going here

a few years later I had the TV on while I was cleaning house. it was on the local PBS station and there was this nice kind looking grey haired man with a silver beard talking, but I didn't pay much attention until I caught something specific he said. it stoppd me in my tracks and I sat down and started watching. I found out the fellow was Robert Fulghum, the author of "All I need to know I learned in Kindergarden". I had read his books and at that point he was already my favorite author.
I can't quote it word for word, but I will try quoting it in my own words as I understand them. He said.

Women come to us men looking for the relationship and love they didn't get from their fathers. We try to fill that gap, but we fall short. The truth is. You had one opportunity for that, and now that opportunity has passed. We have to accept that and stop looking for it in others. it will and can never come again. Now that it's gone, it's gone.

Sometimes someone says something that turns the light on. His words turned the light on for me. I realized I was looking for the acceptance and love that I had been denied earlier in my life. Robert's words made me stop looking to someone else to fill that void. What I lost can never come to me again. I have learned that,and that is perfectly okay.
I have also learned that sometimes we avoid becoming true adults. We hang on to the idea of someone else caring for us, and being dependant on someone else for love. Being a true adult means taking responsibility for that yourself.

90% of what we need and expect from others is unvoiced. It is implied based on our beliefs and attitudes. This is usually what causes problems in relationships.
Think about what your definition of love is. it is probably totally different from someone elses. Based on that definition you expect certain things from a relationship.. even if it is unsaid. You assume they know.
I had a friend that told me she was slightly bothered by a comment her soon to be husband made. He said "yes, I want someone to love. You know, someone that will cook for me and wash my clothes."
At first glance this might seem callus, but to him it meant someone who loved him and cared enough about him that they wanted to make sure he was okay, healthy etc.
But because of his belief, maybe later if he came home from work hungry and she hadn't cooked he might get upset. Not because she failed to feed him, but because his fear is that.. if that is the definition of love, and she didn't do that, she must not love me.

Sometimes we have to think about what our definitions are, what we are expecting from others that is implied and unsaid and realize that they may have no idea the rules we have set for the relationship. But most of all, turn loose of those preconcieved notions we developed in life about how things are defined.

Sorry this got long, but Cara your comment about looking for approval from others, got the wheels turning in my brain I agree with everything you said, and I think you put it into words perfectly.
When we give up the idea of expectations, what we deserve and what we are denied, it is liberating and freeing. I think only when we do that are we able to love others unconditionally. We are then able to love freely without thought of what we expect in return. It allows the other person, and ourselves to give love in our own way. It allows us to accept what the other person has to give and not be thinking "yeah, but.. I wanted this."

I've had people use the phrase "love hurts" to me. I tell them, No, love never hurts. The fears and the needs we attach to those we love hurts, but love never does. When a relationship ends it isn't the love that hurts,It's the loss of something or someone we needed that hurts. If we can learn to not attach our needs to relationships and people we'd do okay. But most of the time we confuse love with needs. They're not the same.

Bylen