BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Once again, I am excluded...

I work in a small office with three other girls and they are all married with children, their ages range from 21-37. I am 36 years old and happy not to have children however that doesn't mean that I want to be excluded from conversations regarding theirs. I always ask about them but I just feel like an oddball when I'm at work. I also don't attend a church or listen to the same music as them but I never let those things get in the way of any other relationships I have!! What do you think of this? Should I just go about my own business and ignore it?

Huh???

Thank you for your imput

CalamityJane -

I have found in offices that there are often cliques for all sorts of reasons - they all listen to a certain type of music, they all watch a certain TV show, and more. It is sad that women, more than men, tend to form these social groups and try to exclude others.

For me it was always TV shows. Everyone would be watching certain TV shows that I just had no interest in. So they'd all be sitting around and laughing, and I'd want to be a part of it, but it just wasn't a good mix.

It sounds like this is the same situation for you. It sounds like they have certain interests and they just don't mesh with yours. So there are a few solutions.

You could change jobs That's a little extreme but I really find I work best when I am surrounded by people who share common interests and goals with me. You work as a real unit that way, and you are just so much happier too. You might not have that option though.

You could seek out a common ground. Yes, they listen to different music and they have kids and go to church. So that is three areas where you diverge. However, maybe they have hobbies they enjoy? Maybe they have TV shows they watch and you do too? How about books? Look for that common area. We all differ from each other - but most of us overlap too. Look for that overlap.

Finally, you can of course resign yourself to the idea that they just want to be their own group. That would be the hardest one for me.

Really good ideas Lisa.

Hi Calamity Jane,

Okay, so you don't have kids, how about this idea. You were a kid once, so you know how some kids think, right? Next time they're talking or complaining about their kids, chime in from a kids point of view. " Yeah, I remember I used to like to....." Who knows? Might work. Might also broaden their perspective to boot.

Church - why not ask them what they like about? Why they go? Why it's important to them? Get to know them, not just what they do. Who knows? Once you do you may even decide you're happier not mixing with them!!

Anyway, back to being nice. It's showing interest in the tiny issues that builds rapport and friendship. They're not bothering with you because they think they don't need you. They've already got a group. They're wrong, they do. You've got value and can only add to their world.

Unfortuantely it looks like it's up to you to burrow in somehow, or your work days are going to suck with loneliness.

Good luck. I'm sure plenty of other people will have better ideas than mine, just wanted to pop your post back uptop.

Calamity Jane,

I have a friend I used to work with and she and her partner do not have children, but we've worked together at a few different businesses together and developed a close friendship.

When the opportunity arose and she would talk about kids with me (I have three girls), she loved recounting things her mom did with her. If I had a dilemma, she might share what worked for her mom, or even what works for her other friends with kids.

She is CFBC but we've always gotten along well in our different lifestyles and have been good friends for almost twenty years. It was always nice to have someone intelligent and thoughtful to engage in conversation with and I never felt she was an oddball.

Find other conversation starters so it isn't always about the kids and then they will get to know you better and soon it won't seem like it matters how you live. I understand that always isn't the case but it never hurts to be hopeful and try.

I hope it goes well, especially if you like your job, you will want to like the people.

CJ,

Back when I was MNK (although not planning to be CF, also not knowing when I would or if would be having kids and not interested in being grilled about it!), I worked in a small office also, but in my case, I was 24ish and they were in their early 50s, with kids who were just recent high school grads, or one with an elem and high schooler. They were all divorced or getting divorced, and while I enjoyed working there, it was tough that I couldn't ever really connect with them on a personal level. They thought I was "cute."

I don't think it was anything against me...they were in such a different place. I think the thing we all connected on the most was talking about current events. It was right about when Bush was being elected, and I was there for 9/11 and all of that stuff happening to us all together brought us all a lot closer. We were all huddled around the radio listening to NPR when the pentagon and Penn flights went down. Not that I'm advising wishing for a national tragedy to bond with your co-workers, but I guess what I'm saying is that it takes time. You'll bond on shared experiences, whether they are personal, political, work-based or otherwise.

Don't let the life-stage/CF thing overshadow all of it if you can...

Nicki

It's really eye-opening to read this, because immediately after my daughter was born, I felt excluded in conversation at a summer picnic my husband's boss hosted - no one could talk to me for more than two minutes, and their choice of topic was nothing but my infant daughter. It was as if I had no past, no history, existed only in the ether until she popped out. No one else had a child at all, but they were talking about so many things that we did have in common.

Then a similar thing happened at a party where everyone else had children, except that I was the only one who had a baby with a disability. I think it must be like being the only person of a specific ethnicity in a crowd of the same different race.

I'm not sure by your message whether you are unsettled by them not talking to you about their children, or because you are surprised it bothers you. We do live in a social world where being perceptive is interesting and good, and being sensitive is somewhat farther from perfection than we might want to be.

Maybe if you initiated conversations that were child related they would include you in what they probably think is too trivial a topic for you to be interested in. Maybe a tangential topic, like how people choose a baby's name, or which month has the greatest number of their children's birthdays - nine months after a winter storm, or holiday, or vacation?

Of course sometimes conversations about children between parents of children is fraught with drama with undercurrents of jealousy and pride - it's hard to pick up on the subtext unless you've experienced the odd physiological reactions moms have when one person brags about their child's accomplishment and all the other has to offer is their child's disciplinary visit to the principal's office; another child came in second place in a spelling bee and their child was questioned about graffiti; the other's child was offered a pretigious internship and one's own child is on parole. Except that parents can pick up much more subtle differences - sometimes the smaller the perceived difference the more emotion can be attached.

And of course the person whose children seem to be the most mature and successful is probably hiding their own deepest concerns - actually all the moms are probably doing that.

But probably, they assume that you are not interested because child-rearing is such a mundane business.

They might go to church because they have children, and the might listen to different music because they have children - you never know if those differences were changes they made because they are raising a child or two - and it might be that you have nothing in common with the women who are moms because they really are dull and uninteresting except for their children's activities.

They might be avoiding the topic because they think you would be judgemental about their children's behavior and the choices they make in raising them - they may be projecting this only because they do not approve of how the other moms are raising their kids, or they are so in awe of the other moms because they feel they are inadequate - lots of moms feel inadequate because (1) they can't be perfect and (2) even when they are perfectly adequate so much goes wrong they can't see it.

It's their loss not to know you better - and I hope you find a way to connect with them so they don't miss a great opportunity for friendship.

Pam W
SE of Seattle

I must, must, must switch to decaf.

I know a bit how you feel. I am the ONLY one out of the four of us in the part of the school I work in who does NOT go to church. And two out of the other three go to the SAME church. (Yes I have been invited but I do not WANT to go to a church AGAIN. Spent years down that road I'm over it now.) But it feels a bit weird when they talk about it, still I respect that THEY like it etc. I think perhaps you and me need to find friends OUTSIDE our work or hang out with said friends more and see work just as work - yes I know it can feel isolating at work that way I do. I also have two colleagues I drop off most days and we have quite good chats etc. but noone there I really consider a friend. To me you go OUT with your friends socially - NOT counting work dos! - or to each others homes, you see. My friends back in New Zealand we used to go out or at least meet up and I'd go to their homes. Now we just email but I STILL consider them my FRIENDS. I wish I COULD make a friend at work but I'm just glad I get on much better with everyone than I used to. Try to find some common ground even if it's just moaning about work stuff! And if you have a nephew etc. you could compare notes a little - if you want.

Maybe talk with them about recipes? Bring in something you've made like cookies. Sometimes people can bond over food.