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Haha! Sean Hannity ...

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Gecko
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I would also like to chime in and say that I came here for the MNK site. And I mostly read the posts that include venting, since so many of the situations are similar to ones that I have been in, and if they're new to me, then I can think about how I would react to that situation.

I agree that most of the more aggressive posts by CF people on this site have been either disagreeing with someone or standing up for themselves. I don't think that is hateful or inappropriate.


...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...
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i have to say that i've really been thinking long and hard about this issue. it's really been bothering me to be honest. i just feel like there are so few places where Cf people can talk honestly about things and to feel like now that we can't is well really disheartening. it's hard enough to have to censor myself a lot in the real world but to have to feel like i have to now watch what i say is really upsetting to me. personally i don't care if people on a rep. forum are saying that dems are idiots b/c a.)i wouldn't visit the site anyway since i'm a staunch dem and b.) well they're entitled to their opinion. my pt. is that as with any forum i really believe that it should be a safe and open forum and as long as people aren't being a total A and threatening people than i think people should be able to say what is on their minds as in mentioned in the constitution.

just my two cents.

indigo

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i just wanted to add that i understand that the mod has the right to set whatever rules they choose. it's just that i consider this forum a support group full of intelligent and supportive people and i think for the most part people are respectful.

indigo

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Angela...I think that I was accused of using the word "it" a few weeks ago - in fact a clear reading of my post reveals I was referring to the situation and not the child...
It just goes to show when someone comes into our forum with a certain mindset - that is, looking for offence...they'll find it whether it's there or not...
Also, I thought it was curious that a colleague (mother of 4) was recently complaining about an unruly kid in reception..."that baby is so loud - IT should be taken outside"...."Ohhhh, IT'S totally out of control"...
People in this forum have been "taken to task" for using IT in that context - yet that wording sounds fine to many people when you don't know the sex of the child...
I asked the mother about her use of the word "it" (explaining that some people might be offended by the use of the word "IT") - I explained that it was a bit of research on my part...
She laughed and said "anyone taking offence at that...is looking for offence"....
She might be right...
It seems our words are often examined under a microscope, words are isolated, overall meaning and context are ignored - whereas a parent could use the same words with no problem at all...

Last edited by Deborah49; 04/24/08 07:50 PM.
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Wow...I've been away the past few days. Alot has developed here since then!

I read the new rules and have to say that I agree with the others. I became a member here because of MNK and being able to express my thoughts, opinions, and frustrations as a CFer in a child crazed world. Now, I feel very censored....a little lost. What DO I post now? If we only talk about the nice things, then we have no discussions leading us to explore and understand how to deal with the negative aspect of being CF. I go all day every day censoring my feelings about this topic. I don't want to come here and also feel censored. I understand that Bella doesn't want the "hate" language and hostile environment and I agree that there needs to be a happy medium. However, we also need the freedom to respectfully vent our frustrations (without worry that we�ve broken a rule) in addition to discussing the positive aspects of the CF life. It is human nature to use stronger language when venting frustrations, so I�m sure that now, many of us feel that they can�t express themselves openly and honestly as they had before. At least I do.

This forum is certainly not hostile compared to others. I actually haven't joined most other forums because their atmosphere was too hate filled. I do not "hate" parents or children and do not fit with those other hostile environments. The people who have gathered here are intelligent and for the most part respectful. This forum was a safe place to learn about other CFers' experiences, connect with other CFers, vent when I am frustrated, cope with losing friends who become parents, etc. We are a great community of friends who support each other every day.

As for educating others by posting in the forum�I am not here to do that, but if others can be educated by what I post, great. Maybe someday parents will be more tolerate of CFers. Yet, my definition of being educated is learning about all of the facts. For others to truly be educated by reading our forum, they need to read posts about the positive aspects as well as the negative aspects (i.e. our rants). Otherwise, they only learn about one side of the coin. Others (parents, want to be parents) need to learn about how they make us feel � weird/strange for not wanting children and why. Many of our posts can show them that.

So, to make a long post a little shorter, I don�t think the answer is censoring us more than before. I think a PM from the moderator/co-moderator to alert the poster of their unacceptable language is a good idea. That way, we can learn from our own mistakes (in private) what exactly it is that Bella considers unacceptable language.


How can you prove whether at this moment we are sleeping, and all our thoughts are a dream; or whether we are awake, and talking to one another in the waking state?
-- Plato --
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Gecko
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Originally Posted By: Deborah49
"Angela...I think that I was accused of using the word "it" a few weeks ago - in fact a clear reading of my post reveals I was referring to the situation and not the child. It just goes to show when someone comes into our forum with a certain mindset - that is, looking for offence...they'll find it whether it's there or not..."

No need to defend your use of "it," Deborah. Frankly, I've had it. I'm responding to this particular excerpt because I'll admit I've used the term "it" quite frequently to refer to children as opposed to situations. I use the term "it" (and will continue to do so freely, either here or elsewhere) for two reasons: 1) It's a quick reference to the subject (the child to whom I'm referring at hand), and 2) I don't have a child...it's easy and quick for me to refer to the thing as an IT, rather than grammatically offend the professors of my past with the whole "he/she" bit. For Christ's sake, if I were to go in the Cooking Room and refer to parsley as "that green sprinkly stuff," would someone be so unstable, bored with their own life, Nazi-herb to make a post to correct me?

For me, kids will sometimes be a "he," sometimes a "she," and sometimes an "it." The "it" thing will come through in my casual (rather than politically-correct-appeasing) writing more often because I truly feel awkward, anxious and a little freaked around humans under 16. I thought I was safe here expressing that for over a year.

Originally Posted By: CF GAL
"If we only talk about the nice things, then we have no discussions leading us to explore and understand how to deal with the negative aspect of being CF. I go all day every day censoring my feelings about this topic. I don't want to come here and also feel censored."

I could have copied your whole post, CF GAL, because I really identified with it. I even read it aloud to make sure I soaked in every sentence. I only copied the first couple of lines that verbalized how I feel, too. And still, I keep going back to your post, shaking my head...I feel everything you said.

It's ironic that this thread was started by the moderator/editor, with her point being her consideration of sticking with MNK. Kim never intended any feelings of animosity or discord; yet, many of us are using this thread as a way of posting our thoughts on our way out, "Wondering if I Should Keep Doing MNK."

What an unfortunate turn of events, thoughts and discussions for this crowd of people.

Last edited by Angela P; 04/25/08 03:34 AM.

"Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity." --Democritus
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Gecko
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Deborah- I was bothered by the 'it' criticism, too. And you know, looking back, I thought I was doing the best thing by just avoiding the situation and ignoring the poster. But you know? Silence implies agreement. I should have said something and supported you.

Perhaps if we present a united front then some of the people who come in here won't feel as free to just leave nasty little comments.


...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...the cake is a lie...
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I think this censorship stuff has me a bit worred. If we can't go in and post about the day to day events in our lives (events that have largely made us CF) then what's the point? Any and every post we make is going to offend someone, simply because our views don't match theirs.

A lot of us post here because we feel discriminated against in the "real world". We arn't around people that are like-minded. So we come here, and vent to our friends.

But I don't own the forum.. so I guess any decisions that are made are simply made without consideration for the posters (which is surprising considering the MNK forum is by far your most popular forum). But as long as we are laying down rules for forums so that they don't offend; can you please implement the following:

Delete the romance books sections.. I consider it soft porn.
Get rid of the breast feeding forum.. we are simply encouraging public nudity.
We should get rid of the wine and beer sections..or at least limit them to people of legal age..we arn't trying to contribute to minors are we?

If you havn't realized by now.. i'm being sarcastic.. and because of it I sound like a complete idiot. Blind censorship to please the "masses" is still censorship. Telling one group of people to be quiet simply to make another group happy is called discrimination. What did we do to suddenly be lower on the totem pole than others?

As an added note I did a quick count of all the Registered Users, Anonymous Users, and Search engine hits: 106 Users/Hits and 32 of them were in the Married No Kids section. Thats 30% of everyone on here at this time, all in one spot. You would think that if one section was this popular (and good for business) then it should be nurtured, not censored.

My two cents...let's see if it lasts.

Skeeter

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The quoted post describes this forum and it's contributors very differently than they are described now. I found it an interesting study, to say the least. Paragraphs excerpted from "In Response to Those Who Drop By to See Us" Feb. 28, 2008:

Originally Posted By: kimkenney
But truthfully, I don't know why non-CF people post here. (I don't know a thing about wine, so I don't go to that forum to offer my opinions...but I digress...) As long as it helps educate people who don't understand us, it is OK. When we start being truly harassed, THAT'S where I draw the line.

I am proud of the way everyone conducts themselves here. We ARE the most positive child free forum out there! This forum exists so we can support each other in our choices, vent about things that upset us, and have a meaningful discussion about the choice to be child free.

We are doing that.

Thank you all for being so wonderful, respectful, and thoughtful in your discussions here. I am proud to the moderator for such a great group of people!

Kim Kenney
MNK Editor




Happily Living The Childfree Life!
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