BellaOnline Forums News and Politics Pro-Choice Question about pro-choice?

Angela P, I knit booties but I am still Pro Choice (I know what you meant and I am just trying to be funny so please laugh) hahahaha come on it's funny.

LOL Eva. I've knitted my share of booties too.

Ha! I don't knit, but I cross-stitch and make coasters with plastic canvas...does that count?

Hi CrochetQueen:

I know of wonderful mothers that are Pro-choice, as well they should be. It has nothing to do with being against babies, as a anti-choice person would want everyone to believe.

I have to get back to crocheting.

FYI, and for purposes of this thread, "Curtis'mom" is now "Plumette." Regardless of what she would like to be called, she who started this thread in the Pro-Choice room with her "question about pro-choice" being why anyone would want to kill another human ... has yet to answer my question.

I believe I gave a sufficient answer, which was simply because I don't think it's right to bring a child into this world if you cannot effectively, properly raise that child. God forbid you may actually bring harm to the child just by introducing him/her to your world.

I then asked a question, and I'm still waiting on an answer from Plumette or any other troll who insists on driving by the Pro-Choice forum just to argue and pass judgement, especially those who cast out dispicable statements regarding murder, genocide and other over-the-top sentiments.

I'll present my case again with the same question, not for purposes of argument, but to honestly seek your truthful answer:

Case study: Tamara, a 19-year-old mother of three (and these three babies came from three different boys, none of whom are in Tamara's or the babies' lives), who lives on peanut butter, canned meat and an occasional piece of fruit, and who resides in a condemned house in a part of town none of us would dare venture, gets pregnant by her current crack-addicted, abusive boyfriend. Before you're so quick to raise the baby-killer flag, I ask you: Would YOU want to be the baby in the tummy?

I've obviously made a lot of people mad. I'm sorry. I'm also sorry for not understanding the nature of these forums. I've always been taught to challenge my own beliefs, debate with those who have opposite opinions, and learn from that. I usually know where debate is welcome and where it's not: I've left my childhood church (much to my parents dismay), because once I knew I shared different beliefs, it was my time to remove myself. Here, I thought debate was welcome, and I really thought I'd get some unanswered questions answered.

I was honestly trying to understand pro-choices POV on abortion. It was just getting frustrating to me, because I wanted answers to question nobody was answering. As far as the questions others asked me?: I feel my posts answered them. If anyone truly wants to hear my opinion on their questions, and feels that I didn't answer it, I'd be glad to reply. However, after being called a troll, and fanatic, and the hostility that came my way; I believe I am not welcome to express my opinion on the matter.

So, please, I know it's stupid to have hurt feelings from a bunch of people you don't know, but I do. I was not trying to pass judgment on anyone. I'm just trying to live my life being the most honest,self-less, giving, open-minded person I can be. I seek knowledge in that goal, and came here to seek answers, narrowed down to facts not emotions, and not religious beliefs.

honestly....I meant it when I said " ~peace"

And peace to you, too, Plumette. I highly respect your post that explains what you were seeking. Curiosity isn't a bad thing, and neither is information gathering when it's done constructively and without judgement.

I'll give you an example on how much I understand where you might be coming from:

There is a room on Bella titled "Large & Lovely." I'm fascinated by women who are totally comfortable in their skin with being large. I have my own opinions about it, but in order to seek more understanding, I could barge in there with a question-phrased post about "How is it possible to simply accept being so overweight?" Even though I would be coming from a position of pure curiosity, others might think I'm using "curiosity" as a disguise to do what they think I might really want -- to stir up trouble, to get reactions, to throw my opinions in their faces grenade-style, etc. Those women are happy with who they are and I should just leave them alone...in the sense that they are fine with being large and I am not, I should just stay out of there unless I can formulate a more respectful question like, "I'm seeking to be more comfortable in my own skin, too, and I'm curious as to what avenues you traveled to get where you are?" See the difference? I'm sorry if it seems I'm lecturing...I'm not...I only learned this by making a very similar mistake.

There are many rooms on Bella whose titles and discussions are different from, and even opposing, my lifestyle. But unless they are open to debating it, I think it's more respectful to just live and let live. A good way to ask them if they want to have a mature, fact-surfacing discussion about it is through a private message.

Again, I'm glad you returned to explain your position, which I respect and even support (your right to ask, your right to opine, your right to many things).

And I offer the same ... peace.

Peace also to you; and good comment Angela.

I understand your motives as you've stated them here. Unfortunately, pro-choice is not an issue that can easily be broken down to just facts, at least not where abortion is concerned. There really is no way to boil away the emotions, and anyone who is opposed to any portion of the pro-choice movement will probably be viewed with at least skepticism, more likely distrust, on this forum. That is an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction to fanaticism from groups like Operation Rescue.

When I served as an Emergency Medical Technician back in the nineties, I worked with an older woman who remembered what it was like before Roe. She told of a time when she responded to an ambulance call for a woman who was the victim of a botched abortion. The woman bled to death in my co-worker's arms. Abortion is not a modern concept - it has been around for hundreds (perhaps thousands) of years. It can be assumed that women of the distant past would seek to terminate pregnancies for self-preservation - there is certainly a great deal of historical proof of high death rates due to childbirth.

One thing I did not mention previously, that may help a bit in your search for truth on this issue is on the nature of man. When there is debate on abortion (and many other issues) there is a great deal of talk about god's will. I spent many years studying various religions - from Christianity, to Judaism, to paganism, and beyond. Two common threads exist through all of the belief systems I've studied - the first is that god holds a place above man for the purpose of guidance and explaining the unexplainable, and the second is that man (and woman) was granted free will in one form or another with the blessing of god. The end result is that anything - including "evil" things - people come up with to do with their lives is with the blessing of god. Without evil, there is no good, and the balance of the two is what makes the world as we know it possible.

If there was something out there that was truly against the will of god, it could not be done. Our example of that on Earth is visible all the time, in our children. They do many things that confound and anger their parents all the time, but through those actions, they learn what their place is meant to be in society. Some choose to be good citizens of the world, and some do not - but they have that choice. Removing that choice would create a society of automatons, as illustrated in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World."

Perhaps the truth you seek can be found in understanding that you are unique, as is everyone else. Your beliefs are your own, and the key to the truth is in recognizing that everyone else owns their own belief systems - the best one can hope for in life is to find a way to coexist in a world of diverse people and belief systems. I think the bible said at least one thing about that - "Be of the world, not in it."

Sigh...

I understand everything you all have said: I was once pro-choice (in my 20's). I am not pro-life for religious reasons. I've chosen pro-life in all areas of my life...pro-respect, pro-equality, pro-fairness. And our laws should protect those rights.

I understand the right to one's own style of living. I do. I believe in the right for each individual to be able to pursue happiness. (Provided it doesn't prevent another person to pursue their happiness.)

So that led me to think: If I believe everybody has a right to pursue happiness, old, new, woman, man, gay, "straight", fat, skinny...all human beings: Then that right should go to all...even an unborn child. Legally, the laws we adopt should protect everybody.

I know there are horror stories about what wrongs have been done to pregnant women, children born in bad families etc... I just wonder if two wrongs make a right? Instead we should have programs that help those woman and children. I personally would take an unwanted child....there are a lot of people out there that would love to adopt a newborn baby.

Okay, I'm not preaching... I REALLY just need somebody to explain this one thing to me.

Pro-choice people as a whole are more compassionate to others than some pro-lifers, who can be very exclusionary. I respect your concern for women, and the desire to protect them from oppression...I do get that. I'm not shoving my pro-life belief down your throats, nor do I want to.

I'm just asking those who are known to be so compassionate to others...and something that I asked myself: Why does the right of one person's pursuit of happiness, override an innocent other's right to life and happiness?

For those of you who think that an unborn baby is not a human being: I get your belief. I don't think it's very logical or factual, but it's yours to uphold and you need not reply. I understand your POV. And that ended my questioning you. No offense. It would be beating a dead horse, and I'm not here to convert anyone.:)

If this is still an unwanted and offensive post, I will stop. I promise.

Liz, thank you for your response too. I know I'm not your favorite member.:) I believe in your assessment that the earth is balanced with "good" and "evil". I just like to align myself with "good" as much as I can. As far as being "of the world" not just "in it"....that's why I seek the answers that I do, and that is also why I am interested in our current laws: That we as a people can live together, respecting each other, and live in the world that favors "good". I've once seen "evil", it's not just a yang/yang thing. But, I digress....