BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Wondering if I should keep doing MNK

Actually Frieda makes an interesting point - maybe Bella Online, The Voice of Women is not the best place for a CF Forum....
We are one tiny section of the website that generates a huge amount of cyber traffic...the need for such a Forum is obvious.
Perhaps our mere existence on this site will irritate some parents/mothers...also, the list of current topics on the side of the screen makes it easy to stray into another area and feel offended by its content...
A separate website might perhaps attract less attention - you'd only get those that make a conscious decision to find us, join and post - people wouldn't stray into the Forum...
I know the forum I accidentally clicked onto recently was horrifying - child haters...VERY unbalanced, angry people IMO
I WON'T be joining that group....
Perhaps, if the problems persist - parents complaining and "intruders" insulting/judging we should take our Forum elsewhere - I have no idea how we'd set up a website - we might have to beg and plead for Duane's help in that regard...
I just think if people are not free to vent and discuss without fear of complaints and "attacks" - we lose the very purpose of the Forum - we're back to real life - keep your mouth shut and smile nicely or sugarcoat everything you say - Oh, that only applies to YOUR group by the way...Not fair IMO
This is in NO way a criticism of Kim or anyone else - Kim might like to head our new Forum - a huge asset for us...
Frieda's post (& others) perhaps highlight a problem that's not easily fixed - "inherent differences" - we speak different languages...a problem that may only go away if we heavily censor and rephrase every post so as not to offend/confuse/challenge...
Is that required in the other Forums?
I wonder how many times the Parenting Forums have been "intruded" upon...yet, some people do post openly provocative statements in our Forum and then go off and complain about the conduct of our members...would that be tolerated in the reverse? - could I post something openly provocative in the Parenting Forum and then complain about their conduct?
I sometimes think on some deeper level having "a go" at us, is somehow "acceptable" in our society...the reverse is unthinkable/outrageous.
Of course, most of the parents who post in our Forum are great people...genuine and sincere.
AND, Frieda - my comment about nastiness/judgment etc. rolling off me "like water off a ducks back" is a fairly recent thing - I can tell you that in the past I was often offended and/or upset by rude, insensitive individuals...something happened about 5 years ago - a curtain of "I couldn't care less what you think of me" descended so I'm now able to retaliate (if need be) in a completely calm way that really throws people - it has been amazingly effective...I'm sorry it wasn't there years and years ago!
Perhaps it's the start of the "anything outrageous an older person does or says is acceptable" phase of my life...when it's okay to sit with your legs wide apart showing the world your support hose, making strange noises in public without caring or excusing yourself...I'm joking (I think!)

If it comes to splintering off and starting our own site to avoid having controversial conversations on Bella, I can arrange hosting for us through my fiance's company. But that's just a tiny step in the process.

Kim- i'm so sorry for your loss and can understand how you feel. you've done a great service for us and i can truly say that you and this forum in general has been such a lifesaver for me. whatever you decide know that you've made a great impact on a lot of us. i don't think i would've had the courage to be truly CF and now to make the decision to get permanent BC. it's all thanks to this forum.

as to forming a separate website for this forum i think that it's a good idea. some people do "accidently" come on here and i can see how that could happen from time to time. i agree that we should be able to vent and discuss a variety of topics w/o having to worry about how we come across. i really feel that this forum is very respectful and civil and that people here are very supportive. the way i look at it , kim, you can't make everyone happy. i don't know how many complaints you have gotton or the nature of them but if it's just a few people well then that happens in a variety of situations not just here.

just a few weeks ago my co-worker encountered that in an exercise class she was teaching. she has a few people who always complain and finally she just said that she's going to teach the class the way it's supposed to be taught and the few who don't like it well they can take another class. (she didn't say this out loud of course) long story short the class turned out to be better than ever and most of the people were really thrilled with the change.

like i said i dont' know what the situation is with the complaints.i can understand though that working full-time and having other committments besides here can be overwhelming. whatever you decide i support you and wish you the best.

indigo

>Actually Frieda makes an interesting point - maybe Bella Online, The Voice of Women is not the best place for a CF Forum....
We are one tiny section of the website that generates a huge amount of cyber traffic...the need for such a Forum is obvious.
Perhaps our mere existence on this site will irritate some parents/mothers...also, the list of current topics on the side of the screen makes it easy to stray into another area and feel offended by its content..

I am one of those strayers, a mother by choice, who has enjoyed seeing a different perspective. Mind you, I have NEVER felt that anyone should have a child for any reason other than that they want one. If you don't, I am happy that you not have one, just as you are happy not to have one.

I think that if you went off into some other corner of the 'net and had your isolated forum, you might find less annoyance, like moms like me straying in, but you also might prevent some greater acceptance. Without dialog, it is often hard to understand another point of view.

Kim has to make the best decision for herself, and I can understand either way. I hope she finds the space she needs to be able to be in touch with what will be best for her.

Thank you to all who have shared, and helped me grow in understanding!

I disagree.
I feel that Bella Online *is* an appropriate place for a Married No Kids forum. We are women (and men too!). And we have a voice. The difference is, our voices say that even though many women choose to become mothers, and that is great, we do not fall into that category and have chose differently. And that is OK too. I read some of the posts on the Moms forum and I do not take offense to anything in there. I sometimes find it interesting! In most cases it reinforces that fact that I think differently than a mom does and that is why I don't, and maybe shouldn't, have kids. I think that many moms comes in here to read and maybe learn about what it is like to be a woman without kids and that mom may inevitably learn something from us MNKs too.

I think that Bella Online is the perfect place for moms, dads, married no kids, nutrition, gardening etc, etc. Women can be all of these things, none of these things or some of these things. I am a woman. I do not have kids. I like kids (in small doses) and I tend to not like poorly behaved kids. I like parents. I tend to not like poorly behaved parents. This site can include women of all stations in life, from various backgrounds and those who have different views of life and what they want out of it. I would hate to see this forum be relegated to some corner of the internet that separates us as being the "odd woman out", even in cyberspace, just because we decided that being a mommy, however right it is for many women, is not right for us.

jhmd--ITA with you! I would be sad if we were booted off Bella just because we have a different lifestyle than many other members.

That is a great point jhmd, and I agree with you. It would be very sad if the day came where we were truly unable to coexist with women with children. I also enjoy exploring different forums here when no one is around posting on MNK, and there are a lot of interesting people here who are not MNK.

I posed the idea (actually, I'm not sure I'm the first one who suggested it) because it sounded like the complaints were more than just trolls, but coming now from Bella management. So, I'm becoming worried that we will be shut down or booted out whether we want that or not. There are some posts in this thread even that worried me, saying that "certain MNK members" are not behaving well enough for Bella's standards.

Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I can't help but wonder if that was me, since it was a vague statement. A lot of thoughts I express here are indeed not the most acceptable by our society's norms, so it's not that outlandish to wonder. I'm really not sure how self-censoring I can or am able (or willing for that matter) to be in order to comply with that standard, whatever it is. I'm here because it's a place I can be honest and vent about things that I feel deep down, and if we lose that freedom here, I just don't see the point anymore. I feel like we are supportive of each other, but maybe that's not enough. Are we supposed to be supportive to people who come here and put us down? I don't get that.

Creating a forum is not rocket science...there is plenty of free software out there. So, I was just thinking, if we're really not wanted here, I'd rather have access to you guys somewhere else than lose you altogether.

Ms A's post gave me an idea:

I believe we serve a greater purpose here than just for our own cameraderie and similar interests. We also (whether we wanted/cared to or not) serve as a source of education for women who wonder what the CF life is like.

People who read MNK could include a mother trying to understand her CF friend, a mother just wondering what it's like, a childless person trying to make a decision, a young college graduate seeking information...when you stop and think about it, though we get so engrossed in our own issues, we educate a lot of people, whether they can understand our POVs or not. Our CF site, whether it's called MNK, CFBC, or whatever, is necessary on a place like Bella so all POVs can be heard and discussed.

I think one of the main reasons why our room is so popular is not necessarily because we discuss touchy or controversial topics, but perhaps it's because we represent a segment of population that has taken a stance on one of only two options in life. Women will ALWAYS fall into one of two categories: Those who had kids and those who didn't, for whatever reason. We represent those who don't have children. The people who did are often curious as to why or what it would be like to not have had kids. The discussions we surface don't always match their POVs, and they might throw in a grenade-like comment if they think their two cents is worth anything, but I don't think that just because we're different (and it makes them mad and they complain if we fire back) that we should feel the need to make a home elsewhere.

I totally agree. Actually, I had no inkling of what being CF was before I started searching on the web like others under words like "Not wanting children". This site, and others like it, were really educational for me, and helped me grow toward where I needed to go, which was accepting what I am. Actually, maybe I'm not even truly CF, since I was a fencesitter and had times when I was planning to have kids someday...so....it's not just CF people that can be helped by reading this.

I also like to think we help future generations of women through the mothers that come on this site too who are raising daughters, if their daughters decided to be CF.

I do hope things settle down and this is just temporary blip, and that in the long run we are allowed to remain here.

I'd also be interested to know about the nature of the complaints. I'm amazed at how tame and civilised this forum is in relation to a lot of others out there, and I know that all the regular posters work hard to keep it that way.

Angela and Ms A have great points about the freedom of access to the board, and its location on Bella. Why should we run away and hide just to keep people from hearing our opinions? We spend real life having to keep our mouths shut, why should we do it on "our" board? It's interesting how the right to free speech is all well and good until it's considered offensive by someone, and then it should apparently be shut down pronto. By their very nature, controversial topics are the ones that need to be protected the most.

It's thought provoking to me to hear different points of view - and some of the random click through posters on here have good points to make. Most of the regular parent visitors are respectful and articulate. Those that are not, I'm quite happy to open a can of whoop-[censored] on, but I don't take it personally - this is the internet after all.

Kim, I sympathise with your loss and feel for the strain you're under. If there's anything we can do to help, please ask. I think a couple of co-mods would be good - the snowboard forum I'm on has four mods, and it's not much busier than this place.