BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids I used to be more of a liberal

but articles like this make me feel like a conservative:

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I know what you mean, Frieda. I think too many people fail to realise that their problems stem from their poor decisions. I came across this article on the BBC website yesterday in which a teenage mother bemoaned the lack of money and pleasant living conditions. I'm afraid I just can't sympathise with her - what did she think was going to happen if she became a single mother at such a young age, with no qualifications or financial support? What got me even more annoyed was reading that although money is apparently so tight, she can still afford to buy cigarettes. Good to know she has her priorities sorted out.

Sorry to rant. Perhaps I'm becoming overly judgmental in my old age...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Someday we'll have some nice crotchedy conversations when we're all hanging out at the old coot's commune. : )

I forgot to bring up a few other things this article made me think:

"It doesn't seem like I'm gaining anything," she said, interviewed as she sat next to her mother, Joetta Fitzpatrick, who had business at the East Bay Community Law Center in Berkeley. "It seems the more I make, the more somebody takes it.

Not gaining anything? She gained a few kids somehow!

"I like to make a decent meal for the kids, but as the kids grow older they eat more. Everything is going up. Milk used to cost $2 something a gallon and now it's $6," she added. "We're eating a lot of noodles and leftovers."

Eating leftovers! The horror! How sad that you aren't privileged enough to throw out more food. Oh darn!

Also, I get really annoyed by these mothers who say things like "Babies aren't expensive at all! You just mash up any kind of food, share your bed, wear a sling, and that's it. This whole thing about raising children being expensive is a big myth by people who are just overspending." They totally ignore the fact that very soon this child will need a whole new wardrobe every time they grow, that they'll soon be able to chew and will need to eat lots of food.

In order to boost the family's income, Flores is preparing for nursing school by going to microbiology class two days a week. Her husband takes a four-hour course in electronic record keeping every day.


How long is this 4-hour/per day record keeping class going to continue? That seems strange to me. If it's for over a year, he might consider actually entering a degree program in something that would give him a more valuable skill than record-keeping at the end of it. Good lord.

"I want my kids to do well and go to college," she said. "So we work and have to struggle."

Gee, isn't that a shocker? Shouldn't everything just be free for you?

and this part is particularly revealing:

"The lowest-income people are much better off than they used to be," he said. "If you just look at the baskets of consumer goods that people are acquiring, it's just not consistent with data that shows people are not better off."

Right. How many cable channels do they have? Tivo? Flat screen TV? Cell phones for every member of the family? Video game system? Most people these days seem to feel entitled to have everything that they see on TV, no matter how little money they have to pay for it all, and then they complain when they can't pay their bills.

There are ways they could cut expenses...the article says they drive a Honda van...sell the van, and get a more fuel efficient four-door sedan. The kids will be okay. Just because you have a kid or two doesn't mean you need an SUV or minivan. I had one brother, and I can remember when we were little, taking LONG road trips in a Honda CVCC, a little bitty car. We just didn't take a lot of stuff with us! They could move to a cheaper part of the country. Oakland is very expensive, I'm sure. The Midwest is much more affordable. She's a secretary, she could do that anywhere. I don't know what her husband does, but he could probably find a job in the same profession in another city.

I agree, if you don't want to live beyond your means, make some allowances for your circumstances.

Cindy

When I read complaints like this, I always think of my grandmother's stories from her childhood, and what it really means to be poor: not knowing where your family's next meal is coming from, not being able to send your children to school in the winter because they have no decent shoes, and having no welfare state to fall back on. I know that many old people have a tendency to complain about the current state of affairs but my grandmother is adamant that people have it relatively easy today.

By the way, the old coots' commune sounds great.

Thanks for posting the articles, Frieda and Manatee. I agree that there are so many ways that parents can cut costs to make ends meet. And I know people in the upper income bracket that are struggling. It's easy to make suggestions when you aren't living it, but to me, you just sacrifice certain things. You don't eat out as much, you don't buy everything you want, or everything the kid wants. And you know going into parenting that you are going to make sacrifices. You can't flip the script when the kids come along.

My DH and I, as you know, won't be having kids And we are considering other options as far as where we will live. We were looking at a salary calculator online, and seeing where we can get the most out of our money b/c we know we will be retiring eventually. Parents should think the same way - they know their kids are going to need money for college, so why not move somewhere where your money will go farther??? And you won't be living paycheck to paycheck, and actually be able to put some money away.

I also know what it's like to work more than one job, and I was thrilled to do that b/c I wanted to have my own apartment. I was so proud of that, when I first got out of college. If something is important to you, like your kids, you find a way to make it happen. And people really need to look at their earning potential before they have kid after kid after kid. I know no one wants to do this, and they think it's a downer, but it's much more of a downer to be struggling for years on end.

Manatee, totally identified with what you said about your grandmother. My grandmom was one of 12, and their parents died when many of them were in their teens and 20s. They survived, and my grandmother had character, and understood the value of money. And she enjoyed the simple things in life and never became materialistic.

I think if people like to spend money wildly, they probably shouldn't have kids. It's a totally different ballgame.

I know when my husband bought me jewelry on our honeymoon cruise, and for Christmas, his sister was making comments about the fact that her husband wasn't buying her jewelry. Meanwhile, they don't have any money in the bank whatsoever. Hmmm.

Okay, hold the phone -- they live in OAKLAND (isn't the bay area supposed to be like the most expensive place in the US other than Manhattan??), have three kids, don't have degrees, and they are complaining that they have to eat LEFTOVERS????

What entitled, selfish morons.

I think the word "entitled" sums it up perfectly. There is no such thing as the American Dream anymore, it's more like American Entitlement. People think that just becuase they live in this country, they are entitled to own a home, own a car, have a big family and have money left over for college, tv's, cell phones. It's sickening.
I was reading an article a while back on CNN about the housing crisis and the guy they interviewed was talking about how he was in forclosure because he couldn't pay his ARM mortgage and he was quoted as saying, "It's almost like you have to have no debt and lots of savings in the bank to be able to buy a home in America. Who has that?"
I DO FOOL!!! Because I'm a responsible person who knows that you have to work for things you want. You don't just deserve it because you're American.

>Eating leftovers! The horror! How sad that you aren't privileged enough to throw out more food. Oh darn!

Yeah -- right. Even before my dh got laid off (he is employed now), I always ate leftovers. Heck, I PLAN on it -- it makes life much easier to cook once and eat twice or more! She should be grateful that there are leftovers to eat!

>This whole thing about raising children being expensive is a big myth by people who are just overspending." They totally ignore the fact that very soon this child will need a whole new wardrobe every time they grow, that they'll soon be able to chew and will need to eat lots of food.

Well, some people also seem to buy into (no pun intended) the idea that everything you buy for your kids has to be top of the line and brand new. They NEED clothes. They do not need expensive clothes. If they want them -- once they get to a certain age, they can earn money to pay for them. (That has the added benefit of teaching them the real value of things, and maybe encouraging them to take care of their things more.) There are all sorts of great things to be found at thrift stores and garage sales.

There are so many reasonable ways to cut costs, ways that are helpful to both the wallet and the environment. They (and much of the population in our country, for that matter) need to learn to differentiate between needs and wants.

Go ahead -- push my buttons again! ;-)

I totally agree Ms. A about clothing. I'm a really frugal person. I rarely buy clothes, and rarely go out to dinner (and when we do, 90% of the time it's at a cheap taqueria). I try and only buy clothes when they're on sale, or even at 2nd-hand stores. Only when I feel really flush, or have a big paycheck that just came and am doing okay as far as bills and savings, do I feel okay spending money on new clothes from my favorite "boutique" shop. That said, I still think it would be challenging to keep up on wardrobes for 3 kids, including shoes, as they grow out them each year. Even buying cheap clothes for that many people would be a lot of money (on top of clothing for the parents, who need to look decent for work). Plus, once they start getting into their pre-teens, they'll start whining about wanting nicer clothes, guaranteed. They can get a job at some point to pay for it themselves, but not for a loooong time. And even once they do, it's pretty hard for a kid to earn enough money at a part time after school job at minimum wage to afford all their own clothing expenses.

And yes, this family lives in Oakland, and the Bay area is one of the most expensive places to live on this earth.

If someone were really into self-sufficiency, as this mom claims, she would live in a cheaper place. As our grandparent's generation did, they might even consider living in a place with some outdoor space so they could grow at least a few veggies for their children, rather than just feeding them noodles 3 meals a day.