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That storyline does sound vaguely familiar, but it's not Madeline Baker. Though she does have a book called Hawk's Woman. Madeline is actually a personal friend of mine. She's very religious and her sex scenes are quite vanilla compared to other romances.
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I realy dont think It was Madiline baker or Catherine Coulter they are just the top authers that Write in that line of romance that I really Loved to read! but this book was by one of the authers that I really enjoyed at the time... I cant think of any of the others athurs names! This book was so far off of this authers writing style that It really shocked me when it did not end with the indian friend saving the girl and them living happy ever after! I do remember now that this was one in a series I think but I stoped reading for sometime after I read this one It [censored] me off that bad! I even burned the book!!! and I never burn books! but that one as soon as I finished it I took it outside lite a cig. with the book! best smoke I have ever smoked! anyways...
I have read Commanche Cowboy and I hated it as well! I am not sure what the title of the book was but I know that the hero was named hawk and he was the leader of the tribe and the tribe did not apporve of him taking a white wife so he had no choice but to let the tribe women treat her bad and rape her. and when she publicly rebelled against him he had to teacher her a lesson so he raped her in public and put her in the whores teepee and set it up so the friend would rape her to ruin there friendship for one and breaker her down. so she was broken... and she would be obedent but there was no life left in her so he had to take other wifes and they tried to shame beat and kill her and then at the end she beggs him to forgive her and love her again of course by then he has really fallen inlove with this indian girl that is wife number 4 I think! but I dont remember what her name is or was... they changed her english name to something like blue eyed witch or something. I remember some where in the book I think at the end she saves a young girl from drowning by doing cpr and they think she is a witch so they treat her with respect and Hawk takes her back and they life happily ever after with eachother and the 3 other wifes and the white girl is now the first wife.

I appologize to Madiline Baker and Catherine Coulter if she didnt write this piece of book either!

LOL Freespirit! I'm sure they aren't insulted.

I know I've read that book too! I wish I could remember who wrote it.

Michelle, I wholeheartedy agree with Lisa. You are likely to be extremely disturbed by this book. I can't see how you would benefit in any way from reading it and recommend that you steer clear.

Lisa, thanks for your welcome. I had simply stumbled upon this forum when I did a Google search on the title of the book and the word "rape", looking for anyone out there who might have had something negative to say about the book. I'm not at all familiar with this forum, and generally don't participate in online communities, but I'd forgotten how much fun it can be to connect with other like-minded people.

Aside from the issue of rape, I think that perhaps your reaction to the book as a whole is more violently negative than mine, although we're of the exact same opinion when it comes to modern women espousing the virtues of the hero in this novel. I disagree with your assessment that the only attractive feature the heroine possesses is her appearance; Woodiwiss takes care to mention throughout the book that Aislinn is compassionate, dutiful, strong, loyal, and wise. Perhaps your real issue is with the fact that Aislinn is considered desirable simply due to her appearance, with the men completely ignoring her non-physical attributes? (Though, in truth, Kerwick sees those attributes and respects her for them.) I noted, as you did, that Woodiwiss seems overly-concerned about a woman's hair and curves (the heroine in "Flame" has "a bust that would make any man cry") and she highlights sexual attractiveness as the woman's main reason for being in the story at all. In fact, Aislinn's story would have been very different had she not been so beautiful, so her great beauty doesn't bother me much. But does she have to be so coquettish? Based on her first two books, Woodiwiss seems to think highly of clothes and jewelry as a means of softening a woman's heart. I shudder at that.

As to the emotional abuse Aislinn bears at Gwyneth's hands, I note that no one generally interferes with her words to anybody. And Wulfgar is as likely to spew cruel words as his sister(though his words are never based in slander). It seems to me that the real issue is that no one comes to Aislinn's defense or shows any concern for her feelings. One sentence struck me forcefully. I think it was uttered in the forest, when Wulfgar joined Aislinn and her mother. He expressed an utter lack of concern for Aislinn's abused pride and honor, not even condsidering the importance of those emotions. This is inconsistent with any ideals the knight could possibly have held, his own pride and honor being paramount, and so rather than blaming him for the ideas credited to him, I blame the author for attributing to her hero words and actions that ring so false. While I have no trouble believing that Wulfgar would willingly stomp on a woman's honor/dignity, I can't believe that he wouldn't understand exactly what he was dong.

My incredulity with regard to readers' reactions to the book stems from two places: the rapes, and the shallowness of the character Wulfgar. Regarding the rapes, I disagree with any evaluation of a knight's behavior that would contradict such actions. Despite vows taken or views espoused by the knighthood in general, it is well-established that a large number of knights throughout history behaved in whatever unrestricted manner they chose, leaving pain and sorely-wrought havoc in their wake. In fact, knights on crusade were feared as the doers of great evil, and for good cause. In that, Wulfgar's actions ring true to me. But he "falls in love" with Aislinn. To the author, that seems to mean only that he desires her above all others and that he enjoys her company. This is love? This is the love that interests a modern reader? And as to Aislinn, there is no emotional development there at all. She desires Wulfgar, and therefore she loves him, despite his cruelty. Huh?? I'm generally not one to question the characters in books I read, taking everything at face value, but I still don't get the jump on that one.

You seem particularly annoyed by Aislinn's "nagging". That doesn't bother me so much -- Aislinn is left with two choices: marry Wulfgar, or raise her bastard child on her own, left to make her way in the world as best she can, poor and unprotected. She can't stand the shame of being a mistress any longer. Her attempts to get Wulfgar to marry her are no great stretch to me (though the way she goes about it is annoying, I grant you that). And speaking of marriage, what's up with Wulfgar's change of heart? How does a man go from absolute refusal to allow himself to be chained to a woman to marrying on a whim? No one flips that fast.

My interest turns to Woodiwiss. With "Flame", I wondered about her upbringing that she should be charmed with such characters as she put before us. With "Dove", I now wonder about her entire life's circumstance that she should write about rape and abuse in such a light. Clearly, whatever feelings modern readers of these books feel for the "heroes" was shared by the author. I'm going to have to read at least one more of her books to see if I can get a better grasp on where she's coming from.

Looks like I've written a book myself! Can't remember the last time I ever expounded at all about a book I'd read... it's been a while.

The problem is Shay, many women after a rape are not in their right mind at all. I know I wasn't.

Not only was it a date rape, but it was also how I lost my virginity. I had been very adament about waiting to have actual sex, although I did fool around. After the rape I was desperate for this guy to stay with me, because I deeply felt that I HAD to be with the person I had sex with. I found out later that approximately 1/3 of women who are raped (date-rape, I'm not sure about stranger rape) go through this same thing.

For years I struggled with issues like; "Am I at fault?", "Did I fight back hard enough?", "Did I deserve it for leading him on?" and that sort of thing.

Which is why I see a book like this that romanticizes (ok no pun intended) rape - and then is encouraged for young girls to read??? Girls need to know that it is ok not to have sex. It is Ok to stop whenever they need to, and that it is not their fault if they are raped.

Michelle - exactly, the thought that this is being promoted as "great for teenagers to read" really bothers me a great deal. The rates of teenage girls who are pressured into sex is astronomical. So then they read this and think they should forgive and stay with the guy and actively work to keep him?

TrueMind - you brought up a lot of great points! Just to keep things simple, I wanted to talk about one of them. Yes, some knights were known for their interest in raping any woman they came across I've done a fair amount of research on medieval times and definitely agree with you there. My thought on this issue (which I thought I mentioned in the review, but maybe not) is that yes, they existed, just as men who beat their wives existed back then. But for a romance story, my hope would be that the hero was one of the knights who *did* respect their vows and abide by them. Yes, I am all for flawed human characters - but being a serial rapist is not a flaw I appreciate in my heroes ...

I agree! I like romance novels that take a ordenary person and they live above the standards around them like the knight in shiny armor who has a soft and tender side! the handsome Cowboy that shows women respect and treats them like equals and the Prince Charming that takes a bride based on her spirit and brain power and compassion not her family status or money or even her looks!!

I read a book years ago that the girl was plumb and plan in looks and she was a peasent girl taking care of her grandma how was in poor health. she wore rags and worked in the fields with her younger brother. The kings men want to take there land and are trying to force the them off the land but the King will gladly let the brother and grandma have a small part of the land If the girl becomes his whore. Mean while the prince his son has runaway and hates his father and how he treats his mom and and him and he is kind of areagante and hotty at first thinking that he is above the riff raft and all that. but he goes into hiding and winds up getting shot by the younger bother who thought he was a deer. the boy gets his sister and they bring him back the the house and they have no idea who he is and because he is hiding from his father he doesnt tell them. anyways it goes on and the Prince who says he is a knight of the king... sees how hard her life is and that she never complains every time the king comes by they drug the Prince so that he cant tell the King that her brother shot him. finaly the girl has no choice but to become the kings whore to save her family and the king takes her. the Knight wakes up and the girl is gone and the brother and grandma act like he just made her up because they dont want him to get envolved in there problems and hurt the girl. the brother goes after the sister....

It was a great book and the Prince starts out a real #1 first class A$$ but he grows up fast and I found the book a wonderful read because the girl is fat and the Prince goes from looking at her like she is nothing but a fat peasent girl to loving her! the way the auther does this was awesome because it the Prince starts to see her as more then a peaseant servent girl... normal regular woman and then he starts to see that she is smart and brave and more then a Woman but his equal! and then he starts to notice that she is Beautiful! this is kind of a progessive awaking that happens slowly through out the book. I just loved this one because it was the first book that I had read that the main girl was fat and she gets the Prince! and I loved the fact that the prince noticed her as nothing because she had nothing and then her personality and charitor made him see her as a beautiful woman proving that beauty comes from the insideout not the other way around but it does it in a way that doesnt say oh well he loved her inspite of her fatness like all the others did.

I remember that this book was a kiss at the end type book nothing a hot or spice and it was a harloquine romanace but other then that I dont remember the title or the author. I wish I did! I use to have it but I gave it away to a teenager that I thought would love the inspiration.... and She loved it so much I never got it back!

My thoughts exactly, Lisa! In fact, I'll take it a step farther and say that I'd really prefer that my heroes not be flawed in any way. If I want flawed, I'll look around me in the real world. If I'm reading a romance novel, I want sigh-inducing perfection. Or at the very least, near perfection!