BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Husband's comment

Happy Easter to all who may celebrate!

I have posted a few times before, (although intermittently,) but I wanted to share this in case anyone wlse had heard of this comment or thought it themselves...

My husband has been in the blues the last couple of days, and we were talking about our plans for the day and not having kids.(For which I had plenty of suggestions for us both!) Then DH made a comment that I may have seen on this site before, but it is the first time someone has said this to me.

He said that a person is fully matured when they have children. When you have children, you are more like an adult living in an adult world. The life we lead (my husband and I) is more akin to that of adolescents. He says it's from an old Hebrew saying--that you're not a man unless you have a son. He said that he thinks there is an element of truth in that.

So, of course I totally disagreed with his comments, being a woman of the millenium! But I wondered the folks on this forum might think, if you've heard of this saying before, or if your husbands may agree a little with that statement.

I haven't heard this comment before, but I have heard men say they do want to "spread their seed" even if they don't want to raise children. I don't know you or your husband, but it sounds like he wants kids and will regret it if he doesn't have them.

The point of that saying is not that you have to have "a son". It would be extremely disturbing to me if they felt having a female child was "not important" and that all Jewish men who had only daughters were "failures". The point is that you should leave a legacy to be remembered.

In that frame, I agree fully. You *should* leave a legacy. But would your husband feel that legacy would be "not important" if for example you adopted a child? I'm not suggesting you do that - but I'm making a point. It doesn't have to do with a man spawning children. It has to do with affecting the next generation.

For many people - and we can give many examples - that is done FAR better when they are not your own flesh and blood offspring but when they are free to affect larger numbers *because* they do not have flesh and blood offspring. Every one of us is unique and different. Think of all the millions of children Mother Teresa helped. She did not have a child of her own. But she is a shining symbol of a woman who is praised by religion and by laypeople alike. She could not have helped all of those people if she had instead had children of her own.

The key is not to dismiss his worries or concerns. Instead, talk to him about the root of his concern - that he's acting like an "adolescent" and not an "adult" - and find ways to help him feel like he is taking a role in his community and in his legacy creation. That is important for many people.

Yep, I've heard this a lot too, and what I always wonder is why does 'being fully mature' or 'leaving a legacy' unilaterally equate to raising a child? I can think of tons of ways to leave a legacy that don't involve having/raising children. How about leaving your money to an environmental cause? Or coming up with a cure for a disease? Or dedicating your life and resources to creating a wildlife refuge? And on and on. Honestly, I think having a child is really the easy way out--it takes no thought and anymore these days many people don't even take much monetary or disciplinary responsibility for their kids. And it's the ultimate expression of the ego to boot.

So if you really want to mature into a wise and enlightened being, do something truly not for or about yourself--something that doesn't entail people and the world remembering YOU by it, but lets the world just be a better place because of how it was helped/changed, etc.

I have heard things like that in religious or traditional settings - also, certain nationalities put a huge emphasis on reproduction.
AND, certain nationalities also, put a high price on sons...
My DH doesn't fall into any of these groups and he couldn't care less what people think of him - he has no interest in other people's private/personal business and is puzzled if they are interested in his/ours...
He is virtually bingo proof because these comments have never upset him or made him feel uncomfortable. He was often surprised that these comments upset or rattled me...
He'd say to me, "Just ask yourself Deb...why are they so aggressive/rude about our decision to be CF, if they are really happy with their decisions and lives?"
He's a quiet, reserved & highly intelligent man - he loves his life...the freedom to travel, retire early...the list goes on and on...He says many of his partners think he's really lucky and just groan when he mentions our next trip.
Apparently we were a topic of discussion for many years, "why don't D & R have kids?"...One of our friends in the partnership knows we are CF and word got around...One of the partners (father of 4) said to our mutual friend..."I SUPPOSE you can choose not to have kids - it never really occurred to me"....
Amazing!

So she should just cave in and pop out a baby because he kinda wants a kid maybe? How about discussing things, pros and cons of both ways. What if she really doesn't want to have a kid and he only THINKS he does? Wouldn't he regret forcing her to be unhappy by making noise about it, or leaving her when if he just thought things over he'd come to peace with it?
If he deeply truly wants a child for all the right reasons, and she doesn't then yeah he should have the option of leaving. However, it really sounds more like he's buying into the hype that child=you being mature, which is NOT the case. I'd ask him if all those teenagers popping out kids are more mature for having those babies, if the uneducated people who can't feed themselves but have kids anyways, are they more mature? You can be an immature twit without kids, or with them. Having kids has nothing to do with maturity, it only proves that you have a working reproductive system. Maturity comes with how you handle life.

I think there is some truth to that..not in that having kids makes you a real man or adult or anything but the fact that you are able to put other ahead of yourself, be a roll model for a child.... I think that is more of what that saying really means anyone can make a baby and have kids there is nothing adult about it there are 12 yr olds that have kids does that mean they are more adult they you or your husband are? HELL NO!!! the point is to be a real adult you have to put your family ahead of your wants and disires and you have to be responible for your actions. You have to in some way be able to show the next generation how to live there life. you can do this in many many ways. lets say you have deside you dont want kids then you are the role models for the next generation of couples who dont want to have kids. you are setting an example and saying Hey its ok to not breed we did it and this is how we got through it! by how you live and how people see how you live is how they will think about CF people now and in the future. if people see you as happy and productive people then that makes it easyer for the next generation to be CF but if they see you as irrersponible and childish then you make it harder for them.


does any of this make since? its late and I do need sleep but I hope this helps and maybe some one else can say what I am trying to say in a better way! goodnight all!

That's right GreyDrakkon - AND, the men that decide they want a child...but who ends up doing all or most of the work?
Whose life changes the most? Look at the contribution made by many fathers - are their careers affected, are their hobbies abandoned, do they call in sick or leave work if their child is sick, who usually leaves "on time" to collect the kids from creche?
My guess is the vast majority of "grunt" work is still done by the mother (to use Mike_e's expression)
It's interesting that employers often view mothers as unreliable and fathers as more reliable? Why?...because IMO...it's usually the mother that carries the most responsibility for the day to day care of the children.

I think you probably should "grow up" faster with the additional bills and responsibility that kids bring but that doesn't mean you do.

Keep in mind that many neglected and foster care kids are there because the parents aren't "mature." They can be abusive, on drugs, alcoholics, don't want to work, whatever. I'm somewhat familiar with the Oregon foster care system and it's not a pretty picture.

That being said, what's wrong with being a big kid. That doesn't mean you can't give back to society in responsible ways. My 2 cents.

WestCoastDenise
West Coast Travel Editor

I beg to differ. People who are irresponsible and selfish before kids don't magically become unselfish an responsible, not unless they really want to. There are plenty of other situations that can encourage people to be giving and loving, without "experimenting" with it by bringing in another life.
What I'm trying to say, is that anyone who was a brat before having kids and suddenly flipped around and became a nice loving person afterwards, could have had that "transformation" any number of ways. Maybe the could have been a good person ALL their life instead of just when they had kids if they had been shown certain things when they were young. In fact, if you're just not suitable to be a parent, it can make you a WORSE person than you were beforehand!