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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: -Diana-] #390979 03/11/08 05:04 PM
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Eng Culture Nicola Jane Offline
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Yes that is tragic. His father is awful and then to let him be burned too! the only saving grace for the father, was that he realized to late his folly and it cost him his life.


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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Eng Culture Nicola Jane] #391000 03/11/08 05:24 PM
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Lisa LowCarb Offline OP
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Well on the burned part - at that point the father realized his loss and was traumatized by it - he really did want to honor his son. So at that point the father was insane yes, but he had realized what he'd done to his son and was sorry about it.


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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Lisa LowCarb] #391012 03/11/08 05:33 PM
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Eng Culture Nicola Jane Offline
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I have to say I disagree with that interpretation! Sorry smile

I really do think his father was so bitter over losing Boromir and so belived that Faramir should have taken his place, that he trys to make him take his place.

However I do think your interpretation is both nicer and kinder than mine!


Nicola Jane Soen

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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Eng Culture Nicola Jane] #391024 03/11/08 05:50 PM
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"Consult the Book of Armaments!!"

OK that was Monty Python. But I of course have a copy of the full LOTR trilogy sitting right here on my desk.

In the book, Faramir comes back barely alive and his father is completely overwhelmed by his sorrow.

"During all this black day Faramir lay upon his bed in the chamber of the White Tower, wandering in a desperate fever; dying someone said, and soon 'dying' all men were saying upon the walls and in the streets. And by him his father sat, and said nothing, but watched, and gave no longer any heed to the defence."

Denethor is so upset by his only remaining son dying that he completely gives up on the town around him to sit by his son's side.

Pippin is there too. He is observing the pair. "And as he [Pippin] watched, it seemed to him that Denethor grew old before his eyes, as if something had snapped in his proud will, and his stern mind was overthrown. Grief maybe had wrought it, and remorse. He saw tears on that once tearless face, more unbearable than wrath."

Denethor most definitely has realized his mistake and is completely overwhelmed by what he has done. It is this knowledge that makes his mind snap.


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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Lisa LowCarb] #391054 03/11/08 06:20 PM
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Eng Culture Nicola Jane Offline
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oh Ok I repent! cry but the film does not make that very clear. I am glad that the book does, because it is a shame that a man would even concieve such an idea.


Nicola Jane Soen

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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Eng Culture Nicola Jane] #391141 03/11/08 07:41 PM
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I guess that's what happens when you're a steward for all those years -- insanity.

Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: -Diana-] #391324 03/12/08 03:15 AM
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Lisa LowCarb Offline OP
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Well really Denethor was slightly driven insane by having used the Palantir - which was being used by the Dark Lord - for quite a while, to protect his kingdom. So it wasn't being steward, which had been going on for a thousand years. It was specifically that he was trying to keep his kingdom safe - which was no mean feat in those times, with the awesome threat. He had to resort to palantir use to try to keep that safety going. Then he sends out his favorite son for a hope at safety. That son dies. The he is getting desperate and he sends out his only remaining son - and the son is pretty much slain. It is sitting by his only remaining son's deathbed that his mind finally snaps. Which I think is quite understandable, all being told. And to be honest it's not even just the thought that his only remaining son is dead. It is the realization that it is HIS (Denethor)'s fault that everything has gotten to this point, and that it was all for nothing - that Gondor is about to fall. He hears all around him that Gondor is collapsing. So that is why he deliberately says that it's better for he and Faramir to be burnt alive than to go through what is to come.

It's very powerful symbolism. To me it is like the Sept 11 people jumping from the towers. They would rather take control of their destiny and die on their own schedule than sit there and await an inevitable end.


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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Lisa LowCarb] #391577 03/12/08 10:38 AM
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I know, I was just being comical with the stewardship thing. Despite all the fears for Gondor, I would imagine that the death of your favorite son alone can make someone do something so drastic.

I thought the actor who played Denethor did an excellent job. I don't remember his name but I did see him in another movie once. Somehow though, the actors lose some of their appeal when they are not wearing the costumes of LOTR. For instance, the guy who played Theoden looks so much like an ordinary guy but when he is dressed as a king, he seems so magnificent. It is just part of the aura of a good movie.

Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: -Diana-] #391583 03/12/08 11:50 AM
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Eng Culture Nicola Jane Offline
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yes I agree Diana, Denethor was played excellently.

Last edited by Eng Culture Nicola Jane; 03/12/08 11:51 AM.

Nicola Jane Soen

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Re: Lord of the Rings Adulation [Re: Eng Culture Nicola Jane] #391717 03/12/08 06:25 PM
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Denethor was played by John Noble -

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