BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids "The Eternal Student"

Hi all
I'm an occasional poster and frequent lurker on the forum. The title above is what I was called at the weekend by my cousin's wife.

I'll contextualise. I'm 34 and at about 31 I decided I no longer wanted to do my unfulfilling media job and that I wished to change career to become a psychologist, which is far more in line with my political and spiritual values. At the time I was living in a flat I couldn't afford, working very anti-social hours and scarily depressed. I sold the flat to raise the funds for my career change. I didn't tell anyone but my closest friends I was going to do this.

From scratch with no previous psychology training you have to do a part-time conversion course for 3 years and then a post-grad option for 2-4 more years. I slowly confessed the sale of the flat to relatives and less close friends and was actually surprised at how supportive they were.

So since 2005 I've worked full-time with homeless people as well as doing my conversion course in the evenings. It finishes in the summer and I will be very proud of my achievement. Now I'm in the process of choosing which post-grad option I wish to do. At time of writing I have jettisoned the idea of a Counselling Psychology Doctorate(this option would be the typical mother's choice - the kind of job you can "go back to") and am more interested in research, teaching and influencing public policy. The latter choice means a Master's and/or a PhD.

It seems that as I near my 35th birthday, some people are far less supportive of the path I am on than they were three years ago. Instead of congratulating me on having juggled a full-time job and a part-time course, they look disturbed when I tell them my post-grad options. When I embarked on this path, I told them it would take 6 years to come to fruition and I was in it for the long haul. Is it any coincidence that their lack of support appears as I near the age when fertility starts to decline? It's as if they thought 3 years ago that it was OK for me to pursue the things I hold dear, but now, unless I sacrifice my life to breeding another human my life is a little invalid. And then if I have a kid, presumably she/he will only be valid up to a certain age, ad infinitum...

If truth be told I am a fence-sitter on the kids issue anyway. I'm about 70-30 against currently. I've just never really factored it into my plans. If I had been desperate to have kids, I suppose I would have done so.

What has driven me for the last few years is the fact that in my twenties I never did jobs that stretched me intellectually. This meant that it has been hard to meet men with whom I could have a decent conversation. Hence I'm still single. Even in my current job, most of the men are very hedonistic/cynical/anti-intellectual. They are actually lovely people, but when I'm with them I'm only popular when I clown around. If I try to discuss anything serious, it draws a complete blank. I know from long experience how stressful it is to be in a job where you are not intellectually challenged.

I know that many people have got their career and stuff sorted by my age, but my 20s were a bit of a write-off, with a couple of major bereavements and some unfulfilling jobs. My unconventional choices now are simply driven by the desire to be able to voice what's in my head to people who share my values. And I know those people are in the field of Psychology, because I'm beginning to meet some of them.

Funnily enough, one of my reservations about having children is that I feel modern life with its endless juggling and materialism is inimical to good childrearing. And some of the thinkers in my field share this point of view. That's why I want to go into this field - to try and contribute to a better world.

So anyway, I don't know really what I want you to say to me, but if I am immature as some of these people imply, then I would at least like to be able to tell them what drives me. It's just the yearning to be able to express myself in my everyday life and meet people (including guys!) with whom I belong. Then I'll marry and have a baby immediately, OK?

On a lighter note, I changed my avatar from baby hedgehogs to a baby rat because the former looked disturbingly foetal. I know many are phobic of rats, but fancy rats that you can get from a pet shop make wonderful pets, believe me. I saw Ratatouille recently and cried most of the way through!

Anyway, I'm off - thanks for reading this far!
Ogriv
xx

Ogriv, will respond fully when I've finished my work later! I am SO in admiration of your courage in making a career change that's in alignment with your values. And to sacrifice earning income while you do that - wow, that's such commitment and dedication. I too had a few traumatic events thru my 20s and 30s. Everyone is on a different life journey. You stand high and ignore anyone nasty or petty enough to call you something as insulting as "an eternal student".

I think some people are only supportive if you are doing things that *they* consider right.

I call them 'the idiots', after all, my friends have chosen to marry and have babies and whilst it's not my life choice - I am genuinely happy and supportive of their choices as it's their life.

So what if you're an eternal student? surely you're still taking less resources than if you were a single non-working mother sponging off the state?

I also appreciate what you mean about the men - it's ok as long as you're not a threat to them, long as you clown around... however the second you say anything remotely intelligent - no, this cannot be.. you cannot be allowed to prove yourself as intelligent as them.

I've encountered this before - I've been in pubs, chatting to friends of friends and they're fine... really nice, until I mention I have been doing a PhD and immediately they change and some have even started quizzing me on Computing - 'So what kind of bandwidth will I need for.....' , 'So what do you think of the ultra new...... ' - As you know, a postgrad degree is very focussed and just because you do one, doesn't make you the industry expert of everything... yet I've had a bloke say to me when I said ' I really don't know...' , 'Ha! So I know more than you... I knew doing a PhD didn't make you smart'... I mean.. WTF?

Thankfully not all men are like that - some really don't have insecurity complexes and are more than willing to admit they know less about a certain area than you... these are also usually the guys who don't take offence when you say something that they don't agree with, as if not wanting to be impregnated by 'a MANS sperm' is somehow a personal slur....

My sister had two rats and they were really cool.. I was always a hamster person - especially the little Russian ones who are just so evil and bitey.... :-D

Hi guys!
Always so supportive as ever. I've got to say that it's only in the last 3 months of my life that I've received any bingoes whatsoever. I'm convinced it's because I'm 35 in April... Only yesterday I said to someone that if I was told I was infertile tomorrow I'd feel let off the hook, quite frankly!

Re: your comments about the men, Linux Lady. A bright woman needs a bright man. Everything else you can compromise on: looks, money, etc. But if you can't actually talk about anything you find meaningful, then there's no relationship there. I just wish I'd realised when I was younger what my needs truly were in the way of men and jobs.

I must add that most of my friends with children are absolutely great and broad-minded about people's life choices. It's just a gradual cooling I've noticed from some other people of late. Hmmmm.

It's funny, I was thinking the other day that people are quite suspicious of childless women - and yet here in the UK, I can think of three female CF celebrities/politicians who are/were all regarded as national treasures. I give you Helen Mirren, the late Mo Mowlam and Kathy Burke. Oh, and Janet Street-Porter. They're all great, and apart from Janet (more controversial) are unequivocally adored across the country.

So people are strange, really...

Ta again for your support! Do you know I'm meant to be doing my final research project for my conversion course, and yet here I am on the boards. I'd better go away for a bit.

Ogriv
x

Is Toya Wilcox English?

Also, what about Ann Widdecome? didn't she try and sue someone for saying she wasn't a virgin?

Whoops, here I am again not studying!

Yes, I think Toyah Wilcox is CF. She's married to the musician Robert Fripp.

Anne Widdecombe is deffo CF and is widely believed to be a virgin i.e. she's devoutly Catholic and never married. Do you remember when she suddenly dyed her hair blonde? I was convinced that meant she'd finally lost her virginity! She's good though, does a lot of community work and is a real character.

Right, I really am going now. Going to study, then off to a post-grad careers fair. A welcome day off work!

Ogriv
x

I think what you are doing is awsome....following your dreams. We only live once and you are doing what you want. Those that put time-limits and time constraints are usually the same people that think you should "settle down and start a family" by now people. I have heard that people who a near death experience quit their jobs and go back to school or change careers or just whatever to really enjoy life. What is it that we have to have a light bulb moment to do what we really want? Also, 34yrs. is still young. And not all have their life squared away at 34yrs. and really what the hell does that me anyway. What is good for some isn't good for all.

Oh yeah, my freind is a massage therapist and he use to massage this doctor...who actually quit his job and went to massage therapy school and become a massage therapist b/c he said that is really wanted he wanted to do. Can you imagine what other people thought about that?? Who give a sh**t eh? Make your self happy.

Funnily enough, I had the "eternal student" label applied to me only a few weeks ago. The person in question is also a student but one of the young ones, and I did sense definite judgement in her delivery ("eternal student" = "can't be bothered to get a proper job, eh?"). Since I am already riddled with self-doubt, it made me feel old and a little pathetic, but then I reminded myself that this is what I want to do and that it has nothing to do with anyone else. Fortunately most of the people around me are supportive and encouraging, the notable exception being my grandparents whose disapproval is palpable (I avoid discussing my studies with them as much as possible). They cannot believe that I would throw away a well-paying career for self-indulgent study which does not even lead to a specific well remunerated job at the end of it.

Your comment about foetal hedgehogs made me laugh. I love the picture of the baby rat - it's incredibly cute. I used to have hamsters as a child and still have a weakness for cute rodents. I even like the evil kind, like the squirrels who took up residence in our roof for a couple of years before we finally managed to evict them.

Hi Ogriv and welcome to posting on the board

First, three cheers to you for deciding to make a big career change and sticking to it! It is hard enough to change careers (I did it 5 years ago and never looked back) but when it also involves going back to school, for at least 6 years, in your 30's, well you are just Superwoman to me! It is amazing to hear how you love the challenge and all that you are learning and it's wonderful that you found the work that fulfills you and also some likeminded colleagues.

So it's also sad to hear so many people are not supporting you. I think you're right that at first they may have thought it was a 'fun distraction' for you until you met a husband and had children. Now that it seems that it not your ultimate goal they are all getting nervous. And since when is it immature to figure out what your dreams are and go after them diligently?! I call that wisdom, not immaturity.

I don't really have any advice on what to do, other than just be yourself and follow your dreams/heart--you've already been steered right this far, so why go back. I have a feeling if you continue with school and research and whatever your passion leads you to, you will also find yourself surrounded by other people who support your choices, ALL of them, and it won't matter so much anymore what your relatives/current friends are telling you.

Good Luck and keep us posted--and you can always come here and rant to us

You know, part of remaining a properly knowledgeable employee in any field means returning to school and taking classes over the rest of your life. Manatee, that student who was so judgemental is going to be in for a nasty shock when she's older. But, hey, I was a total twit in school, and said a LOT of stupid things, so I guess we have to be forgiving of the young.

I also think that one of the most difficult and admirable things a person can do is change the course of their life. The easier way is simply to keep going in your rut, complaining about how things just aren't working out for you. The harder way is what you did, Ogriv, taking chances by starting over. My guess is that you are losing support because people never thought you'd be serious or make it in the first place. They probably think you're making them look bad.

Well, screw them. Welcome to really living, Ogriv.

And I love the pic!