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Joined: Apr 2006
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Wolf
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Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
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We Were Torturing People For No Reason-

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Joined: Dec 2006
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How very tragic.

Nonetheless, it should be noted that sometimes /all/ methods must be used in order for a military to gain intelligence, and yes, invariably there will be mistakes. Nonetheless, hamstringing ourselves does us very few favors in the long run.

To take an example from Iraq at the moment, it is well known that a number of American casualties are caused by roadside ambushes. What is less well-known, and often kept from the knowledge of the public, is the exact manner by which these roadside ambushes are conducted on patrols. Typically, an unarmed Iraqi will stand in front of the road and serve as the point man to not only delay the patrol, but also guide the concealed attackers. As the current Rules of Engagement do not allow the soldiers to fire on an unarmed civilian, it invariably causes the unneeded deaths of many American soldiers who fall victim to not only the tactics of our enemies, but also the incomptence of our beaucrats who fail to comprehend the realities of urban warfare.

This is a similar case. Yes, innocents will invariably be tortured in the pursuit of information. Yes, torture is icky. However, it should nonetheless be considered that in a hostile world, some consequences are inevitable in an effort to protect ourselves.

Joined: Sep 2006
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Jellyfish
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War is hell. It has never been anything less, and as long as humans are intent on waging it against their fellow brethren, it will not cease to be anything but. If it comes as a surprise that we torture, maim and harass the innocent and undeserving in times of peril and crisis, then we are naive and blind.

I maintain there are things worth fighting for. I do not count oil barony as among those things, but then I don't own a car. So ultimately, this is to be filed under 'The evil that men undertake in the name of Good' category. I'm a woman. I kid not when I tell you that it utterly perplexes me. And I think I speak for most when I tell you that women would prefer a cookie sending brigade over nuclear detonations, any day.

'Cookies, not Bombs'. Am I too late for the 08 campaigning, do you think?

grin

And I am herewith seriously considering changing my tagline to this new quote from SirUnimaginative:

"Torture is icky."

Someone, pour me some milk.

cool

Edited: Truncated punctuation.

Last edited by Lisbeth; 11/02/07 10:26 PM.

Lisbeth Cheever-Gessaman
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I wonder sometimes if most people realize that this so-called "oil barony" accounts for far more than just our vehicles.

Oil is the single resource that brings food to every table.

It powers the lights n your house that you turn on,the TV you watch, the computer you work on, the furnace that warms you. It powers the aircraft that carries your mail to you, the servers to provide you with Netflix videos, the pumps that keep the sewage there and not here. It powers the looms that wove your carpet, the machines that made your clothes and blades that shaped the wood of your table.

So unless you raise your own orchards, farms, and ranches, lack of oil screws us all. Is that a good enough reason to die for?


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Two words: Plastic Flatware.

I believe I covered this in another post, but it's still worth elaborating on again. Ditto for plastic bags.

Your points only underscore the need for each individual to not only quit squandering such a valuable resource but moreso to take accountability for personal energy consumption and voting in politicians that will assist via tax breaks and credits to fund and acquire alternative sources of fuel. There are numerous alternatives - its just that the pockets of most are lined with petroleum and a mindset that resists change.

Most of the things that you listed here could be powered with solar and/or nuclear energy. Which would foster independence and virtually costless power (over the long term) as well as a cleaner and more stable environment. So I disagree completely that we are so imminently screwed by the lack of petroleum but rather by our shortsighted and lackadaisical mindset which has not yet demanded change and a severing of dependence on fossil fuels, which are by no means, an indefinite resource.

Not to mention the fact that the war in Iraq was never publically waged on the basis of oil, but weapons of mass destruction; and so that to argue whether it is worth fighting for at all is to concede to being blatantly lied to by the officials we trust most, but that of course is for another post.



Lisbeth Cheever-Gessaman

Moderated by  Andria B - Human Rights 

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