BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Child substitutes...

This is sort of funny, but as a child I hated playing with dolls. My grandmother had only boys so when I came along as the first grandchild she went doll crazy.

I instead only played with stuff animals that looked like realistic animals. I would still dress them and drag them around with me, but I only liked animals.

I also recall as a child not wanting to hold baby cousins who came along over the years, when they were babies everyone thought it was cute to make me sit and hold them for pictures. I loved playing with my cousins once they were older, but babies always made me nervous. I was always worried they'd spontaniously combust or start crying while I was holding them.

I spent all of my free time talking to my collie and playing with her outside. My mother said that we were inseperable and that we'd wander around together with me jabbering away to her all day. I was an only child until 9.

Even now, I can put up with so much more from a pet than I think I'd be willing to put up with from a child. It's not as if the dog is a child substitute, it's that I really just prefer dogs/animals to kids and a lot of people for that matter.

I'm against most animal testing as well. Especially for makeup, shampoo, etc. Those things aren't necessary and so if humans want them they should be tested on humans in my mind. Why is your hair more important than a rabbit's eyes? It just seems like unnecessary cruelty, and those products can be easily tested on human volunteers. Drugs and medical advancements are something else entirely, I still don't like the idea of animal testing, but if it's something that one day saves someone you love.......then the difference between right and wrong have much foggier lines.

WOW, Ava, great post.

I loved reading the yarns you spun about your relationship with animals growing up and the patience you have today with them versus that which you wouldn't have with children. Again, as with so many posts in this forum, it felt like I was peering into a soul much like my own.

Your sentiments on animal testing were a bit off-topic, but we all get off-topic as we try to convey our own points from childhood to present. God knows I've gotten off the subject in some of my rants or ramblings. But ya made me think...and that's a good thing. Especially your comment about "What's more important -- a rabbit's eyes or your hair?" Hmmm.

Even though your question made me think, I myself am still on the animal-testing side, simply because some tests they do on animals make them blind, cause hives, scars, and other things that would cause a fully functioning human permanent unnecessary damage. I volunteered for a sinus study at my university once...I'm sure they knew (or at least I HOPE they knew) that the test wouldn't cause serious damage, but I got some kind of wild flu for three weeks afterward that landed me in the hospital with breathing treatments, something I never had before or since.

I'm not opening a debate for animal testing; rather, my point in addressiing Ava's comments was to acknowledge that you made me think...

And GOD I love this forum for its intellectuals.

I love the way Buddhists accept that animals have souls - I'm sure they do. I hate the notion that animals are somehow inferior to us - I think animals are often superior to us.
I can't help but notice how communities/countries treat their animals - I think it tells you lots about the value system.

What an eloquent way to round out a point, Deborah.

Indeed, many of us value animals. I'd like to think that most Americans value animals, but I just don't know. We have pets we value, but then you get the news with yet another Pit Bull dog fighting ring, another cock fighting farm discovered.

We obviously have in this forum many animal lovers. If it makes breeders feel better, let them call our pets "substitute children."

It's obvious from this post that many of us don't consider pets to be "substitute children;" rather, the animals in our lives have a dignified place of their own. We don't want kids, and we have pets. Those two choices are mutually exclusive. We don't have pets to make up for not having kids, we just prefer furry friends. At least that's what I saw in the posts.

Hi Deborah:

I have always believed that animals are often superior to us.
I do believe in Buddhist philosphies and at times I do consider getting serious about becoming a Buddhist.

Nature is something that deserves an enormous amount of respect. Overcrowding is one of the ways we are disrespecting nature.
This is also a crucial opinion that affects my CF stance - I do not want to be a part of over-crowding, over-populating the world.
It is sad to see resources dying out, rare species of animals dying out, losing our forests, etc.
We had a few hundred acres of cornfields behind us that was torn down due to McMansions being built. This has disrupted our deer population, as well as the other animals that are being pushed out and soon will have no more space.

Lisa:
I just re-read the posts and I love your comments, especially about male cats.
I have a big black and white (over 20lbs - he is now on a diet).
He sleeps on his back with all four legs in the air! It is so cute, and it makes me want to nap with him!
I had a female before, and now we have two males. Do you think they are more affectionate?
The only problem is that now he is standing up in the litter box, so he sprays on the wall. I even got him a tall box.

Anyway, sorry my previous post got off the topic and turned into an environmental post... I guess that happens with some topics :O)

I loved everyone's thoughts on animal testing. It makes me feel better that others have mixed feelings too when it's for medical purposes, and I am also adamantly against it for cosmetic reasons. If they are to be used, they should definitely be treated well. I hate it that they have to live in cages in labs...that is not right.

Anyway, Billiecat, we have a litter box with a hood on it, which might be something that could help with your cat's overspray problem.

Also, we have a female cat who is extremely affectionate. She's the only cat I've had. She has phases of sleeping in different places, but one of her spots is next to my pillow. It makes my husband choke, but to me it's a living teddy bear and I love it. Cat or husband...hmmm. Just kidding! I've been trying to gently relocate her lately so he doesn't suffocate.

We generally always have female pets because we surmised they might be more affectionate and/or won't have a tendency to run away as much. I have had a male dog and he was very affectionate, so I don't know. We now have balanced out the "family" with 2 males, a goose and duck, but they're not too big on cuddling (yet).

Hi Frieda:
Thanks for your note.
I was thinking of a covered litter box so he won't spray over the sides but he is a huge cat and I haven't seen any for huge cats! He is very tall and wide. The litter box I got him is the really big tall-sided one, but he still manages to go over that one too. I put plastic bags underneath and against the wall to catch it, then I have to douse the area w/Nature's Miracle. If only their urine didn't smell so bad I would consider cats the perfect animal..... :O)

I guess it doesn't matter if the cats are male or female as far as affection; I always heard it was the males that are more loving, but I am sure there are a lot of loving females too - my previous female wasn't, unfortunately.

I LOVE sleeping with my cat - he massages my feet and lets me cuddle. I can put my head in his belly when he is on his side and feel the purrs.....
I heard that most spouses enjoy sleeping with their animal more than their mate!!!

P.S.

Forgot to say - we love ducks!!!

I am in agreement about the cat urine issue. Ug! Ours has developed this terrible habit of peeing on the bath mat. We keep her litterbox in the shower (we have a tiny house), so I think she's confused about her ownership of the bathroom. We call her the "towel valet" because when you take a shower she sits outside it and waits patiently for you to finish. She didn't quite get the job right though, because peeing on the bath is not in the job description!

She has been known to also pee on people's clothes that are left on the floor. Those people are generally my husband because I know well enough (by now) to not leave my clothes on the floor, but he's more of a slacker about that. Snicker. At least she is helping to train him.

I could really relate to that last line about sleeping with animals. That's so funny! That should make single people feel better.

Ducks are cool. Ours is not that into us, but he's still fun to watch and interact with. I love the sound of quacking.