BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Spirituality Christian Heaven and Pagans

The "we" mentioned in the book of Genesis is talking about the Holy Trinity, God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit.

God created the earth and everything in it. God can do anything, so do you think that He could not create a woman on his own? He created man on his own, what makes you think that he a woman could not be of His own design? I could tell you it is and that it is in the bible, but then again you don't believe the bible.

You were clinically dead and went somewhere where it wasn't about judgment because it wasn't your time to be judged. When it is your time, you will be.

I already spoke enough about this in my above post.

I am not going to change your mind and I am not looking to fight with anyone. As I said in the above post, I didn't start this thread, I only answered posts and I was attacked when I spoke about hell. Jesus spoke about hell and hell is all over the Book of Revelations.

Read my post from above if you havent already. As I said I am not looking for a fight here but I was attacked on here as soon as I mentioned hell. Well, I am done on this thread now. And I am not mad at anyone and I hope no one is mad at me.

I love you all, in the name of Christ.

Vance, There is a huge difference between being offensive and being defensive.. I am sure you are well aware of that as a Wrestling Coach.

No one was attacking you. What each of was doing was defending our own right to believe as we will against your insistance that our souls will go where you say they will when we die.

If we don't believe in God, heaven, hell or Satan, then there is absolutely no reason for us to believe that our souls are doomed to eternal misery as you insist that they are.

Reading back over the posts, not one of us have told you that your right to believe as you will is wrong, that you should change your belief, or that you or your soul is in jeopardy.
In fact, I see a whole lot of support there for you to go ahead and carry on with your beliefs.

What we do object to.. at least as far as I can see... is your constant insistence that the way that we believe is wrong, that we should change our belief, and that if we carry on as we are our souls will wind up in eternal misery.

So, who is attacking who here?

I don't dislike you... far from it.. I think that your posts reflect an intelligent, well meaning, spirit filled individual.
But, I still completely refuse and firmly deny your beliefs concerning MY soul. My soul will go where I want it to go and not where you want it to go. That is all there is to it.

I repeat.. I will not meet God. I will not meet Jesus. I will not be judged. And, I will not go to either heaven or hell.. no and, ifs or buts about it.

Love and Light...

Hey Vance.. We could consider this to be a spiritual wrestling match.. I am ready to call a tie.. how about you?

Love and Light..

well maybe this is a start to peace and harmony? (a rough start but a start?!)

Ok, I will concede to a draw. I knew I wasn't going to change your mind about your spirituality, but, when I face my God on Judgment Day, I want to be without excuse as to why I didn't try to talk about Jesus.

So let's end this thread as a draw and we can move on and continue our "spiritual friendship".

Love and Light

Peace at last!!! !!!!!

Hello Friends!!
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I would like to present a few thoughts and ideas to you that could bring greater harmony between people of various religious backgrounds. In the past contentions between these people have caused confusion and sometimes enmity. Would it not be an advantage to eliminate these religious difficulties. The world could be so much more peaceful if this were to occur.

At one time in history Abraham was considered a Messenger or Manifestation of God. At that time the population of the world was vary different. Cities were few and far apart. There was ample space for all without crowding. Transportation was very slow compared to today. After the passage of time Moses was known as a Messenger or Manifestation of God. Those who believed in Moses accepted Abraham as a Messenger of God. Further along in history Christ became known as the Son of God. The Christians accepted both Moses and Abraham as Messengers of God. For me it is peculiar that the Jews do not accept Christ as a Messenger of God and keep their ancient rituals. Next, Muhammad was accepted by many as a Messenger or Manifestation of God. Muhammad is known for subduing the wild Arab tribes who continually warred against each other, stealing women, robbing caravans and burying girl children alive. Again it is strange for me that neither the Jews nor the Christians accept Muhammad as a Messenger of God for His accomplishments. Then in the year 1844 a Messenger known as the Bab or Gate announced in Persia that soon another Manifestation of God would appear. True to His prediction a Manifestation of God, Baha�u�llah, announced His mission in the year 1863. Shortly after Baha�u�llah�s announcement the world populous began to marvel at the rate in which modern tools, new and efficient processing procedures and new modes of transportation, including aircraft, began to appear and make our lives easier.

Let us accept for the present that what I have said is the truth of the matter.

Unfortunately, instead of the populous accepting the various Manifestations of God, the followers of these Manifestations began debating who was the most righteous of all these Manifestations. Today the Jews reject Christ and Muhammad, the Christians accept Jews and the Manifestations before the advent of Moses but do not authenticate the advent of Muhammad. The Arabs accept Christ and the Prophets before Christ but do not accept Baha�u�llah. In addition the Arabs are now quarreling with the Jews. Are any of these contentions of use to the world we live in? I believe not and hope you agree.

There were great differences of thought and action in past epochs. In earlier times the marriage of a son to his mother was condoned by religion. At another time a brother could marry his sister. Later the marriage of a son to his mother was forbidden, as was the marriage of a brother to his sister. The rules had changed as a series of Prophets altered the religious concepts in pace with the circumstances of the world such as the low populations that existed worldwide sometimes due to deaths caused by little understood sicknesses and diseases. Scientific knowledge confirmed the changes made by these Prophets and uncovered information concerning how people should live in accordance with the times and avoid weaknesses and disease. That is why we do not marry our mothers or sisters today.

History tells us that after the appearance of a Manifestation or Messenger of God great changes took place in the lives of world inhabitants. The news of the appearance of a new Manifestation of God lent impetus to the spread of the teachings of the new Manifestation. The peoples of the world became more civilized. The raw nature of man became increasingly more humane. Great houses of worship and cities were built in honor of the New Manifestation. Great leaps of advancement in the sciences and arts took place. The harsh punishments of the past were softened by the words of the New Prophet. During the period of the Crusades, why did the Christians, who were living in Europe during the Dark Ages, attack the Muslims in their homes when the people of other nations were eagerly seeking enlightenment in Muslim schools? Algebra, so useful today, was invented by Arabs. Before the start of the Crusades, Europe was locked in the Dark Ages. After the Crusades Europe emerged from the Dark Ages into the Age of the Renaissance. When the Christian Crusaders arrived for battle in Muslim territory they saw lighted streets and other amenities of life that were absent in Europe, they brought the news back to Europe and the Renaissance began in Europe. Check the History books for the dates of the Crusades and the date when the European Renaissance began. The belligerence of the Christians was contrary to the teachings of Christ Who advocated meekness and condemned violence. The dates of these occurrences may be found in history books. From these dates it seems evident the Renaissance in Europe was sparked by what the Crusaders saw in the territories of the Muslims. It was the Muslim sciences and arts that dispelled the Dark Ages in Europe. The Christians have never acknowledged this Source of the Renaissance.
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Recently, great changes in our world have taken place. Two hundred years ago human transportation depended primarily on beasts of burden such as horses, donkeys, mules, camels, oxen and the like. We were traveling in the dust. After a very short passage of time � 161 years � we are now racing through the atmosphere and space, transporting people and cargo in rockets and aircraft, living in satellites that circle earth, taking pictures on distant planets. Miracles!! Where is the Manifestation of God who has provoked such scientific advancement? God�s Manifestations surely triggered the great advancements of the past. Did Abraham, Moses, Christ or Muhammad return to spark these fantastic happenings of today? Some say Joseph Smith was a Manifestation, but he was a follower of Christ. Have any of the previous Manifestations of God ever returned to this planet after their Ascension? Not to my knowledge! God has His own way of doing things. Our fantasies are no match for His Wisdom. However, many times it is our fanatical loyalty to tradition or our �comfort zone� that blinds us to the Will of God. We seem to be afraid to accept a new Manifestation of God. We have no control over our Supreme Creator. He does what He pleases. He has never sent a Prophet with the same name back to this earth during thousands of years. On the other hand God has sent, from time to time, Messengers with updated information to guide us during the periods in which humans have lived.
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Within all of the books written or dictated by the Manifestations of God I have never read or heard that humans ever had the leave of God to add or detracting from the Holy Writings. Pardon me for saying so but a survey to determine the preference of any human being for one religion or another could not be a basis for choosing which Faith to follow because it would leave the choice to a human being. God has never given us a choice of Who will appear as a Manifestation of Himself nor has He given us leave to accept or reject any part of any Holy Book of the past or of the future.

Thought #3: History tells us that after the appearance of a Manifestation or Messenger of God great changes took place in the lives of world inhabitants. The news of the appearance of a new Manifestation of God lent impetus to the spread of the teachings of the new Manifestation. The peoples of the world became more civilized. The raw nature of man became increasingly more humane. Great houses of worship and cities were built in honor of the New Manifestation. Great leaps of advancement in the sciences and arts took place. The harsh punishments of the past were softened by the words of the New Prophet. During the period of the Crusades, why did the Christians, who were living in Europe during the Dark Ages, attack the Muslims in their homes when the people of other nations were eagerly seeking enlightenment in Muslim schools? Our Algebra stems from Arabic. Before the start of the Crusades, Europe was locked in the Dark Ages. After the Crusades Europe emerged from the Dark Ages into the Age of the Renaissance. When the Crusaders arrived in Muslim territory and saw lighted streets and other amenities of life that were absent in Europe, they brought the news back to Europe and the Renaissance began in Europe. Check the History books for the dates of the Crusades and the date when the European Renaissance began. The dates of these occurrences may be found in history books. From these dates it seems evident the Renaissance in Europe was sparked by what the Crusaders saw in the territories of the Muslims. It was the Muslim sciences and arts that dispelled the Dark Ages in Europe. The Christians have never acknowledged this Source of the Renaissance.
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Thought #4: Recently, great changes in our world have taken place. Two hundred years ago human transportation depended primarily on beasts of burden such as horses, donkeys, mules, camels, oxen and the like. We were traveling in the dust. After a very short passage of time � 161 years � we are now racing through the atmosphere and space in jet aircraft, transporting people and cargo in rockets, living in satellites that circle earth, taking pictures on distant planets. Miracles!! Where is the Manifestation of God who has provoked such scientific advancement? God�s Manifestations surely triggered the great advancements of the past. Did Abraham, Moses, and Christ or Muhammad return to spark these fantastic happenings of today? Some say Joseph Smith was a Manifestation, but he was a follower of Christ. Have any of the previous Manifestations of God ever returned to this planet after their Ascension? Not to my knowledge! God has His own way of doing things. Our fantasies are no match for His Wisdom. However, many times it is our fanatical loyalty to tradition or our �comfort zone� that blinds us to the Will of God. We seem to be afraid to accept a new Manifestation of God. We have no control over our Supreme Creator. He does what He pleases. He has never sent a Prophet with the same name back to this earth during thousands of years. On the other hand God has sent, from time to time, Messengers with updated information to guide us during the periods in which humans have lived.
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Within all of the books written or dictated by the Manifestations of God I have never read or heard that humans ever had a say in adding to or detracting from the Holy Writings. Pardon me for saying so but a survey to determine the preference of any human being for one religion or another could not be a basis for choosing which Faith to follow because it would leave the choice to a human being. God has never given us a choice of Who will appear as a Manifestation of Himself nor has He given us leave to accept or reject any part of any Holy Book of the past or of the future.

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World Unity Advocates