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Joined: Dec 2005
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,582 |
My question wasn't about what John said Jesus said.. it was more on the lines of what Jesus himself had to say.. Can you produce a direct quote from the writings of Jesus please? That was Jesus speaking. Did you not notice the "Me's" in there? Olus it was in red ink which signifies that Jesus was speaking.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,582 |
Christianity is not a religion. Catolicism is a religion. Baptists are a religion. The Methodists are a religion. Christianity is the belief that Jesus was born to save us from our sins. Christianity is the belief that the bible is the inherent word of God.
Christianity is a lifestyle for those who choose to live it.
Religions are following doctrines that are set into motion by other people of that religion.
Christianity is the simple faith that Jesus is the key to the Kingdom. The Kingdom of Heaven.
No one said that Christians have the market cornered on faith. We do have the market cornered on the faith of God and that His promises will be fulfilled that are stated in the bible.
Everyone has faith in something but not everyone has faith in Jesus Christ. Just Christians. That is the only true faith that we have the market cornered on.
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Shark
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Shark
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 277 |
According to The American Heritage Dictionary:
RELIGION, noun-1A. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and govenor of the universe.
1B. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity persued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Under every definition, christianity is a religion.
FACTION, noun-a group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group.
Catholicism, Lutheranism, etc., are factions or religious orders of the religion of christianity. Call it what you want, but it is what it is.
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BellaOnline Editor Gecko
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OP
BellaOnline Editor Gecko
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 540 |
Interestingly enough, the Bible is not the only place that Jesus is mentioned. But, it is the only source that Christians recognize concerning his life and times. But, actually, the Gnostics and Essenes had a whole lot to say about him in their gospels.
Perhaps the four gospels that were picked for the N.T. were picked because of their similarities to one another. However, there is a wealth of information that portrays a very different side of his character.. a much more human side.
I seem to remember that when I was in school, we used many different history books as well as encyclopedias to reference people, places and events. In fact, I remember that I once got a D on a history essay simply because I did reference only one book.
I learned my lesson apparently, because now when I reference a subject I tend to look at a whole lot of different views on the topic. Thus, when I set out to learn more about Jesus and his times, I read every book on the topic that I could find.
By putting together the pieces of the puzzle, I was able to come up with a portrait of a wonderful teacher and healer who touched and is still touching millions of lives with his teachings.. and not all of those lives are Christian lives.
What Jesus said and did is based on those people who heard the stories, told the stories and wrote the stories about him. And, those stories were not written by only four men.. they were written by hundreds of people spanning many centuries of time.
So, if you want to know more about the person that you consider to be the most important element in your faith, why wouldn't you wish to research all the materials that are available about him?
Why would any testament be any more important that another? I see a very interesting and amazing person named Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Mary, and The Gospel of Judas, among others.
Maybe it is because the Gnostic texts paint a picture that most Christians do not want to recognize. Because the Jesus of the Gnostic Gospels preaches equal love for all despite their pathways, whereas the Bible paints him as an unforgiving presence who will doom unbelievers to Hell if they don't recognize the picture that the Bible paints of him.
Christians do not corner the market on the teachings of Jesus.. they are and always will be an inspiration to people of every faith.. and they certainly would be much more accepted if Christians stopped using them as weapons to try and condemn the souls of others.
I love the stories about him, the parables, and the vision that he had that has lived on throughout thousands of years.. But I refuse to be a Christian if I am asked to dishonor those who do not think of him in a certain way. Follower of Jesus? Why, yes, I am that.. just not in the way that many Christians want me to be.
Love and Light..
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Joined: Dec 2005
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,582 |
According to The American Heritage Dictionary:
RELIGION, noun-1A. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and govenor of the universe.
1B. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity persued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
Under every definition, christianity is a religion. Heh. That is just something written in a book hundreds of years ago by a bunch of men. Surely, you cannot believe something written in a book by a bunch of men. Obviously, someone just made up that definition... Please note the sarcasm in my response.
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Joined: Feb 2007
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Shark
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Shark
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 277 |
Christianity is not the only religion to have a bible. They all do.
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Joined: May 2007
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Koala
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Koala
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,142 |
WOW easy folks I wasnt trying for a heated topic... I just wanted to see what Linda's answer would be and she answered with a question and here is my answer.
I think if there was no heaven or hell or God but a Goddess in summerland instead then that would be fine because I know in my heart that I was support to believe the way I believe for a reason. It would not bother me in the lest to find a female Goddess instead of a male God....
and you are right we can what if till the end of times and not get anywhere... I just wondered what you would do in my above questions.
I have asked many people the same question and I usualy get the same answer....kinda like what you gave. the only time I have gotten something different was from a girl in college that told me she would not be suprised to find heaven and summerland was the same place or if there was heaven or hell that she would rather go to hell in misary then go to heaven with self rightous popus christians! and she meant it whole heartedly!!
I figured you would say the same thing she did instead of kinda sidesteping it thats all. You probly picked the smarter answer to the question!!
love ya anyways!!!
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Joined: May 2007
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Koala
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Koala
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,142 |
Yes, we are all humans and none of us have any more knowledge than the next person. What Christians HAVE is faith. Faith to believe in creation of man and woman; Faith to believe that a supreme being created that man and woman; Faith to believe that if we follow His word, then we will be saved; Faith to believe things that we can not see nor can we prove. As far as producing a direct quote from the writings of Jesus, I don't think that can be done, because Jesus was a great storyteller, a healer, a teacher but I never read that He was a writer. Where ever He went, He told stories, taught lessons, and gave parables then later on, His disciples wrote about those "stories" and their travels with Him. When we want to know what Jesus said about ANY particular subject, we need only look at the RED lettering in the new testament (NT), which lets us know that Jesus was talking. That has ALWAYS been our way of knowing what Jesus said during those times, by following the disciples letters and reading the red text which represented what Jesus said. It has been passed down like that for ages and we just accept it that way. Most of what Jesus said and stories he told were parables, anyway, and we should try to understand what he was trying to help us understand. We only need faith the size of a mustard seed to be able to move mountains, which tells you and other people that as much as we believe and profess that belief, it is even smaller than a mustard seed, because we can't move mountains. We can, however, tell the GREATEST STORY ever told and give God credit for what He has done and keep Jesus alive in our hearts and in the world and let the spirit guide us each day. Each region may have a different name for the "highest" power and the final resting place for our spirit, but the supreme being that created us wants us to believe, understand and accept that HE is the one responsible for our being alive. So, it doesn't matter if it is a muslim heaven, a jewish heaven, a chinese heaven or a christian heaven, if we believe in the supreme being who created us all, then we are all going to be in the same place. Jesus, the son, came to earth to tell and remind people who were not following His father's commandments that they should watch out and do what is right, if they want to have eternal life. What keeps me on track and being kind and caring with each other (in my heart, being a christian) is that I have the spirit with me all the time. The Holy Trinity is very important to me because God made the world and all that is in it, including us, and gave us laws to follow. They are good laws: love your nighbors, don't kill, honor your father and mother, and others. Pretty easy to follow, actually. When people bagan to ignore the laws and have sex in the streets, with anybody and even with animals. God sent His son to tell the world to get back on track. When man decided to kill His son, as was meant to be, the SPIRIT stayed on earth to live within the hearts of those who believe. The Holy Trinity is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. Believe me, Linda, when I say that I am not trying to "convert" you, save you or anything else. My only charge as a Christian is to spread the Good News, which is what I am doing. I am not one of the people who says that we each have our own place to go when we die or that there is only ONE place to go - my Christian heaven. God is the name I know as the supreme being who made me and this earth, because I was born in America. If I was born in another country, my God might be called Allah, or some other name. Only because I WAS born in America, GOD is what I call the supreme being, bot Allah or anything else.  God is the name of the feeling that I have in my heart when I want to help others, want to teach, want to be kind and share what I have with those less fortunate. God is the spirit inside me who helps me be happy and feel complete when I love my neighbors and help strangers and walk and talk with elderly people. All the good things that I have learned to do to make this world a better place is because I try to be more Christ-like in my daily life. Each of us has a spirit that lives inside of us, aside from the soul that we were both with, that makes us who we are. If we follow that spirit to make life better for others, than we have accomplished what God wants us to do, and I think we will end up in His presence. (Or HER presence, although I don't give much thought as to the SEX of our maker.) You and I both, as well as Vince and many others, all have the same basic ideas of life (and after-life). We ALL believe in the spirit and we ALL think we should act and be the best kind of people that we can be. I believe that is all that is asked of us. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if EVERYONE tried to be the kindest, most honest, most helpful, most agreeable, BEST PEOPLE they could be? Trish I think you are right we all have the same basic concept and all...we just need to be the BEST PEOPLE we can be!!! 
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BellaOnline Editor Gecko
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OP
BellaOnline Editor Gecko
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 540 |
I think that being the best that we can be means seeing one another as spiritual equals regardless of race, color or creed.
If someone is doing a good deed for another, or goes out of their way to help someone who is hurting, or is living a life of service to the Earth or humankind, I think that we should recognize that and celebrate it!
I live a life of service this lifetime. I chose this pathway. Helping others who are less fortunate is a big part of that pathway. So, when a Christian insists on telling me "Good works won't get you into heaven," I always get a bit confused.
I guess it is alright to live a selfish egotistical life as long as you say the right words and read the right book. At least that it what it seems like to me. The people who are doing the good deeds are going to hell, yet the people who are not doing the good deeds are going to heaven.. something is sooo wrong with that picture. According to that belief, Ghandhi, Buddha and Mother Theresa are all in hell. hmmmmmm.
I don't believe that heaven and summerland can exist in the same space.. except perhaps in a Unitarian Universalist church..lolol.
To be in heaven means acceptance of God and Jesus.. and to be in summerland means acceptance that the biblical God does not exist and that Jesus is not a savior. Maybe it would be like trying to have a meeting of the minds of devout Christians on one side and devout Pagans on the other.. Could that ever happen?
I even have difficulty seeing how Jews and Christians could co-exist in the same heaven, since he is not seen as a savior by the Jews either. So, they certainly would not consider him to be "in charge" in their version of heaven. Jase.. any comments on that one?
I guess I kind of see it as side by side heavens..lol.. the first one has Jesus telling parables on a mountain, the second one has Jews eating kosher food around a table, the third one has Pagans dancing skyclad in a field, and the fourth one has virgins wandering around waiting for the Muslim men. And, I am very sure that every other relgion or belief out there would have one of their own.
And all those heavens are overseen by a Creator image.. who in turn is manifested by an even greater Creator.
Maybe I will just stay on the tour bus and visit all of them.. oh wait... that would be Unitarian Universalist heaven!!
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Joined: Dec 2005
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,582 |
That would be nice. Too bad That isn't the way it is.
As far as Ghandi, Buddha and Mother Theresa are concerned, if they did not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, then accoeding to the Holy Bible, they are indeed in Hell.
Doing good works to get into Heaven isn't possible if you aren't doing them in the name of Jesus because just doing good works without Him is doing them to make yourself feel good and that goes along the lines of being prideful, which is sinful.
You may not believe that but think about how you feel after you help someone or do some good for someone. You feel good and beaming inside and are proud of yourself.
That, too, is in many, many verses in the Bible. For those of you who do not believe in the Bible or in Jesus or in God, then you won't understand what I am talking about nor will you believe me.
I believe in the Bible and that it is the irrefutable word of God and that my relationship with Jesus is going to get me into Heaven. I hope that you all will believe the same thing someday before it is too late, but as we have said many, many times on these posts, that is entirely up to you to believe the way you want. That is why He gave us freewill. He doesn't want people up there who do not believe. If that is what He wanted, He would have just created a bunch of angels.
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