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Joined: Aug 2007
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Newbie
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Posts: 22
You know, I just gave myself time to go back and read everyone's responses more carefuly and, I have to admit, I DID misread most of your posts and the points you made... I realize you all used "most" and "some" and not once "all", so my "blanket accusation" thing is in fact... quite moot... as far back as page 10 or so, which is what I reread just now.

I can give you guys each a big fat paint brush and let you color me seventeen shades of embarrased. In return I'll mail some pepto to the poor people I almost gave ulcers to.

Yes I'm loud, I'm a bit annoying, I'm quick mouthed and rely a little too much on my quick reading even when I'm not reading in my native language, but I can also admit when I have made a mistake and make ammends for it.

If you want me to go back and delete all my posts in this thread I will. I know it's not a simple "oops" situation but hopefuly it's taught me to take a little more time to read your posts thoroughly before shooting my latin piehole. I really am sorry...

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Amoeba
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Amoeba
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I was just rereading your post and I forgot to address the point you made about not wanting to be preachy and trying to change our minds about our life choices. Really? You sound awfully preachy by expounding on the benefits of parenthood and how, if we put our minds to it, we CAN DO IT ALL!!!! And don't worry, you don't have the power to change our minds; we're not that easily swayed. Bonsai made a good point about how this really doesn't seem to be the right forum for you, considering your desire to definitely have children. Maybe a new forum can be started for future parents of the world? Now there's an idea!
Something to think about Griz....

Joined: Jul 2007
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Gecko
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Gecko
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Posts: 709
From Griz:
Quote:
Think about what would happen if you met someone, or a group of people who thought marriage was for fools and a total waste of energy and life? What if these people constantly slammed marriage but were otherwise smart and good to be around? When they told you your marriages were utter mistakes would you just sit there and take it? Or would you mention how happy you are and how you RESPECT THEIR CHOICE...


A) If I was a proponent of marriage, I sure wouldn't go to a chat forum where my opinion was definitely amongst the minority

B) If I did go, it would be to gain information so as to acquire a more well-rounded point of view. I might ask questions to further that cause, but I wouldn't post things like "All opinions should be respected." That's ludicrous on any board with a definite opinion in its own title. It's a free country, so you can say what you like, but in my opinion, you're only drawing a line in the sand and trying to cause drama if you want to throw out opposing views to those of us who could care less if you really can have it all in spite of breeding or if many fool themselves into thinking that.

C) If people on the anti-marriage board were writing that it's an utter waste of time, I'd have to sit there and take it because I'd be in their forum!

I agree with an earlier post -- I could care less if you respect my choice to be childfree, because it's not people like you from whom I seek validation. If, however, you come here to wave the "Respect for Breeders" flag, you're bound to be met with some grievance. I'm sure I speak for most, if not all, of us who congregate here when I say that indeed we do respect people who choose to have children. But no one really surfaces that point very much since it's a *GASP* child-FREE site. We respect parents and kids all the time when we sit quietly in restaurants, planes, theaters, etc. and never say a word. This is our place to get out our frustrations regarding people who think children are just the most lovely creatures God ever created and that we're effed in the head for not wanting some of our own. We respect you. Now go away respected and validated and leave us to continue our rants on brats, screamers, meddling MILs, balls-and-chains, chatterers, stupid kid questions, oops babies and all the other perils of the life we didn't choose.

I'd like some quiche, Bonsai! Anyone up for a rousing game of Bingo?


"Men and women think that it is necessary to have children. It is not. It is their animal nature and social custom, rather than reason, which makes them believe that this is a necessity." --Democritus
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Parakeet
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Parakeet
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As Griz said...
Quote:
Think about what would happen if you met someone, or a group of people who thought marriage was for fools and a total waste of energy and life? What if these people constantly slammed marriage but were otherwise smart and good to be around? When they told you your marriages were utter mistakes would you just sit there and take it? Or would you mention how happy you are and how you RESPECT THEIR CHOICE...


The only other real equivalent subject for this is religion (being that it is an individual choice, that affects no one but the chooser, and the pro-side loves to stick there nose in as to why you don't see their side), so I'll put in my own experiences.

I am an atheist, a non-believer, a heathen as some say, in any sort of god. Saying that, I do sometimes visit the religious forums just to see what they are talking about. It's called "keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." It is a curiosity factor. Anyways, when I do, I keep in mind, first and foremost, the following.

  1. The whole intent of their religious forum is that they believe in god.
  2. I am respectful of their choice to believe in god. I have no problem with that.
  3. My innate point of view is totally opposite of what they believe.


Anything I say in that forum, if I do, will be seen in a negative light, because I would feel obligated to let them know that I am their nemesis -- a non-believer. Anything said will be seen with an eye for negativity. Therefore, I just be VERY careful not to step on any toes there, else I will get bashed incessantly because I could be seen as a major disruption. Walking on eggshells just doesn't BEGIN to describe the situation.

Some people there will be mindful and be gentle and understanding, and be helpful. Others will have a hatred of non-believers and start calling me names. Just as on here, there are a large variety of people who are under one umbrella. In my example, they are the pro-religious. In this forum, they are the pro-CFers. Once you get past that, there are the nice people, and the ugly people.

If I was to say "I respect your choice to believe in god," I would say it once, then let it drop, ask my question, and let it go. Personally, seeing (and KNOWING) the sensitive nature of the subjects at hand, I would NOT even mention that. If I were to bring up such a subject, I would be seen as a "heathen troll," sent in to cause trouble (much like Griz is being seen). Some things are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO personal to one's self values that there may not be much, if any, tolerance for someone who seems to be "in your face", (and here is the point)...EVEN INADVERTENTLY!

By bringing up the point that caused conflict (and, IMHO, being stupid by not watching the reactions and letting such a point drop), the person who feels rejected in that forum, whichever one it is, SHOULD feel attacked, because they are stepping on the proverbial "last nerve." Tolerance has its limits, especially when it gets personal.

If I found I was not received well, I have two choices:

  1. Admit I don't belong and leave the forum, or
  2. Take my lumps and learn from the experience.


We don't need validation, as was said. We ARE who we are. We believe what we believe. WE know that others are accepting of our choice, and we know that others are NOT accepting of our choices. It is because of the latter (and the people of that Attitude) that we get upset. People with that attitude, playing in our own, little sandbox, don't feel very comfortable with that attitude being around, when there are THOUSANDS of other sandboxes out there with people of a more like-mindset, wherein such a person can feel more accepted.

This may not be very politically correct, but it is what I see. PC belongs in the rest of the world. This is our own little venting corner of the world, where we can talk openly about what bothers us, where we can offer advice for those on the fence, etc.

This what I fell personally. I do not mean for this to offend, but if it does, then it is a lesson that others need to learn in order to co-exist in this world where conflict is a way of life.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I can take being old that I am wrong.

Last edited by Duane_Va; 08/21/07 10:19 AM.
Joined: Mar 2007
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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
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Originally Posted By: Duane_Va
This may not be very politically correct, but it is what I see. PC belongs in the rest of the world. This is our own little venting corner of the world, where we can talk openly about what bothers us, where we can offer advice for those on the fence, etc.


Good point, Duane. I was feeling bad for a little while yesterday, and then I thought about it. And the reason I was feeling bad is that what I posted might not have been pc toward parents. But then I remembered that I made the statement in a Married No Kids forum.

I wasn't even ripping on fat people, I was talking about how I've noticed obesity seems to be prevalent among parents. I didn't say all parents are obese, etc., just commented on something I've observed over the last 30 years or so. I even noticed it when I was growing up, and I remember thinking as a kid, that Mom's have a certain look about them.

I am not mean-spirited about heavy people at all. I know some women that are really brutal in ripping on overweight women. My friend, that is a Mom of two, was going off on the heavy women at her pool that wear two piece bathing suits. I've never been that person. And I hate when people make fun of others for their looks, whether it be their features or their weight. It just isn't me.

I was just observing that it seems to show that there's an imbalance in parents being able to care for themselves vs. caring for their kids. When someone is carrying a lot of extra weight, it's kind of an indicator that something isn't working for them. The same is true for someone that develops a drinking or anxiety problem. Sometimes work causes people to drink, have anxiety or overeat. But work related issues aren't something we discuss on this forum.

I guess I know a lot about addiction issues because I belonged to Coda for a while - Codependents Anonymous. I was there to help me cope with my sister's addictive drug and alcohol use. There were recovering alcoholics, people from Overeaters Anonymous and other addictive groups at the meetings. So I learned a lot about it.

Last edited by happytobechildfree; 08/21/07 10:55 AM.

Save your own life - don't have kids!
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Shark
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Wow - what a lot has happened since I was last here..... I just got on-line to read the forums and this one seemed to have created a life of its own. Unbelievable what some of the comments were like - especially on a child-free board. Interesting the level of vitriolic feeling that seems to exist in some people.

Anyway, on a brighter note - are we all going to start sharing recipes? I'm thinking of making the quiche for my partner's lunches as it sounds really good.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 570
Gecko
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Gecko
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Posts: 570
Posting recipes is something I do only when things are getting overheated!!!

Full disclosure: I can't vouch for those recipes I posted...just pulled 'em down from Google. Completely untested!

cool




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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
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I just thought of this when I was posting about something else... I was visiting with my cousin a few weeks ago, and I was telling her how I have zero patience, and she quietly said "you learn patience when you have kids."

It [censored] me off, b/c the previous day they asked me the kids question, and I responded with my no. And, it's *not* true. My Dad was a total lunatic when we were growing up, and constantly flipping out and screaming about stupid things. I have adopted the lack of patience, and the tendency to get really wound up about stuff. He raised three kids, and is now raising his grandson. And he still has *zero* patience.

What about the people that beat their kids to death? Why didn't they miraculously learn patience when they became parents. I know it's something I could improve upon, but I have other skills and things that are more important to me. I just find it condescending when parents put that kind of [censored] out there.


Save your own life - don't have kids!
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Jellyfish
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Jellyfish
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This weekend I was visiting with the in-laws and the subject of grandkids came up - again. I told them that if we do have kids, my passion is to adopt, not have my own. I told them (apparently for the first time) that I have no desire to get pregnant or have my own child and that I think if there are children who need a home, why have your own? They were astonished to hear me say I didn't want any of my own and my FIL says, "But why would you pay to adopt when you can just pop one out for free?!". He was half-joking, but from each of their expressions, I believe they were quite serious.


Katie
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Koala
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Katie -

If I ever chose to have children, I would most likely adopt, too. I had a foster sister who was separated from her whole family, and it was really hard on her. So I thought if I want kids, I'll get a family so they don't have to be split up.

My husband would rather have his "own." Oh well, I don't want any kids anyway, so what does it matter?

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