BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Odd things you've heard people say regarding kids

"Our work hours run from 7am to 2pm, workdays are monday through friday, and that's it."

Did I misunderstand? Are the teachers working those hours? If they are, that's where they're cutting corners. I arrive at school a half hour before the kids (7:30); the kids leave at 2:30 and I'm lucky if I can leave by 4:30. I'd love to leave with the kids every day! Are there any openings at that school?

[quote=frieda7]Anyway, it's another of these anti-intuitive arguments...like yes, you can actually work full time, get a higher degree, keep up your hobbies, and raise numerous well-adjusted children all at the same time...plenty of people do it with style. If you can't do that and still find time to lay in the hammock eating bonbons...something MUST be wrong with you![quote]

There are people out there that are like that. My boss at my first Canadian job was a total powerhouse, and she only needed to sleep about four hours a night. The controller at my last job raised 2 kids 18 months apart in age at the same time as she was studying for her CMA AND running a business. That just blows my mind.

These people are the 1%'ers. Unfortunately the rest of us are given this as the "standard", and proceed to crash and burn trying to do the same. So often, there is a very unhappy story behind the facade - and everyone is surprised when he runs off with his secretary, and she is exposed as an Oxy addict after her nervous breakdown - they had "the perfect marriage" don't you know??

High achievers at anything, including parenting, are to be admired and celebrated. But sometimes the rest of us poor mortals need to be a little more realistic...

ILSummer,

I don't start teaching until 10 am most days I teach 10 am - 3:30 pm), but have committee meetings some mornings starting as early as 7:30, am in my office for my advisees and other students until at least 4, and work at least one weekend day every other weekend too (substituting for dorm counselors, so they can get one day off a week).

I do most of my administrative/phone call/email stuff for school at home --- another hour, on average, a day.

The schedule is all over the map. Like most private schools, we get more vacation time, but when school is in, sheesh, is it IN.

Elise

Bonsai,

Yes, I don't know any teachers who only work while the kids are there. It would be chaos, as one cannot possibly prepare lessons, correct papers, conduct parent conferences, and attend faculty meetings during the "official" school day while the kids are present. It's a fairly common misconception that teachers have short workdays. And even though I try not to, I end up taking work home as well. The vacation time is great (one reason I love summer so much!), but it's a trade off. That's why I was wondering about Griz's workplace - it seems too good to be true!

Yeah, I'm staring to understand myself that it's too good, but it is true... I've been working there for five years and every year has been better than the last. It's a very teacher-friendly workplace, and we do get to leave with the kids. All our planning gets done at home or during the kids' art lessons or PE. Meetings are once or twice a month, usually on saturdays or friday afternoons. All our other work gets organized two weeks before each school term.

I'm also starting to think I'm weird and these people I talk about are freaks of some kind, because of the attacks or overblown arguments I've been getting from some of you. Let me restate my position, which has NEVER changed, and I don't see why it should make anyone uncomfortable when I speak my mind; I'm ALL for people choosing their own path based on their own priorities. It does NOOOOOOT, emphasis on NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT make you any lesser person or less worthy of respect to choose to remain CF.

All I'm saying is, these people who do it all and remain happy DO exist, and gee, maybe they deserve the same credit for it that you do for sticking to your own priorities. Maybe they're not all horrible people, maybe they don't all want to berate you or make you feel like you're making a wrong choice. I'd like to think the main reason you chose to remain CF is because you simply don't like to have a child around at all times, you don't want a child to take your focus away from your own life plan, you just want to spend time with your cherished partner and don't have the desire, incstinct or whatever else it may take to be a parent. If you're feeling attacked by my comments that's NOT what they're being meant as, they are just a reflection of what I have seen and I don't think I've tried to change anyone's mind about their personal choices, simply broadening the spectrum on a group of people some of you seem so have been stereotyping, that is all.

oh, my school is in Mexico, btw, and the pay is better than what a university professor makes.

Uh oh. I think I may have been one of those overblown commentors. Didn't mean to make you feel attacked Griz...sorry.

I agree that there are people who do it all and are happy and successful. Quite a few of my friends and family are that way (or seem that way), and appear to pull it off really well. A lot of them manage to do amazing things with their life in addition to childraising, many of them far surpassing me in those respects too. I do not think lesser of people who have children as a whole... part of me is envious of their confidence, trust in the universe, faith, optimism, etc.

Your school sounds like an incredible place. I wish it was more like that here.

Yeah, I'm staring to understand myself that it's too good, but it is true... I've been working there for five years and every year has been better than the last. It's a very teacher-friendly workplace, and we do get to leave with the kids. All our planning gets done at home or during the kids' art lessons or PE. Meetings are once or twice a month, usually on saturdays or friday afternoons. All our other work gets organized two weeks before each school term.

Yep...that's a pretty good deal.

I'm also starting to think I'm weird and these people I talk about are freaks of some kind, because of the attacks or overblown arguments I've been getting from some of you.

Attacks? Overblown arguments? Griz, you ain't seen the half of it. When a parent or a prospective parent visits a childfree forum and suggests the tone isn't to her liking...um, it's really hard to know how to respond to that. I think we've been pretty restrained, actually.

Let me restate my position, which has NEVER changed, and I don't see why it should make anyone uncomfortable when I speak my mind; I'm ALL for people choosing their own path based on their own priorities. It does NOOOOOOT, emphasis on NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT make you any lesser person or less worthy of respect to choose to remain CF.

Thanks. We know this, though. It's most of the rest of the planet that doesn't. We're glad you're not one of those people, Griz...particlarly since you're here posting on a childfree discussion group.

All I'm saying is, these people who do it all and remain happy DO exist, and gee, maybe they deserve the same credit for it that you do for sticking to your own priorities.

The reward should be in their doing what they do, though (not in looking for kudos from others). It is their choice to get themselves that busy. Further, they will gain from it financially later on. Yes, they deserve credit for sticking to their priorities...but in my experience, I substitute for a lot of colleagues who are parents, studying for another degree, or more often both. And quite often, those favors don't get paid back.

Maybe they're not all horrible people, maybe they don't all want to berate you or make you feel like you're making a wrong choice. I'd like to think the main reason you chose to remain CF is because you simply don't like to have a child around at all times, you don't want a child to take your focus away from your own life plan, you just want to spend time with your cherished partner and don't have the desire, incstinct or whatever else it may take to be a parent. If you're feeling attacked by my comments that's NOT what they're being meant as, they are just a reflection of what I have seen and I don't think I've tried to change anyone's mind about their personal choices, simply broadening the spectrum on a group of people some of you seem so have been stereotyping, that is all.

I don't think most of us feel attacked, Griz. I don't. We tend to let our hair down a little bit here because the real world requires that we be extremely PC about parents. This is an open forum and there are a few parents who post here in a sustained, consistent manner; they've never said they feel "attacked". If you're looking for a forum where the culture is debate among parents, CFs and fencesitters (not so much a support/discussion group for CFs), may I suggest cf_debate on LiveJournal?

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*Attacks? Overblown arguments? Griz, you ain't seen the half of it. When a parent or a prospective parent visits a childfree forum and suggests the tone isn't to her liking...um, it's really hard to know how to respond to that. I think we've been pretty restrained, actually.*

I don't believe I've said anything about "tone". I just believe in calling things as I see them. I believe all of us here want to bring something to the table. I generaly enjoy your conversations here (main reason I stick around), and empathize with the grief you constantly put up with from society. I also never said I felt attacked, bonsai, you can corroborate that from my previous posts, I just said I felt some of the people from the community felt that perhaps I was putting them down simply for exposing a different reality than what you're used to seeing.

You can maybe take it as a odd cultural difference. People in my country tend to dream the American dream, but I don't condone people who work illegaly in other countries (working legally is another story), and I believe there are as many oportunities to make a good living here. My job is a perfect example of that, it's an ideal setup for a double-income family. Still, some older people like my father hold on to the notion that a dual-income family cannot succeed. I'd probably still be thinking the same thing if I didn't have the example of people at work who show me every day that it all CAN work out. At the same time, I know if both my future DH and I were working stressful full-time jobs, studying, and earning just enough to keep ourselves comfortable, it would probably be very, very hard to raise a family right.

Why would any of this be meant to change your minds? that's where I think some of you are getting me wrong. It's as if I were french and I told you in France they PAY you to have kids. Would that make you change your mind about being CF? If you're really confident about your desicions I don't think you'd bat an eyelash. I was just hoping all of this would be taken in more of a "hey, I didn't know that, good for them" kind of way, like if you'd heard people in india like to dine on mealworms or something.

I'm just trying to bring a little balance to the issue (can't help it, I'm a libra girl :P )

I don't believe I've said anything about "tone". I just believe in calling things as I see them.

Yes...saying that you were experiencing "attacks and overblown arguments".

I believe all of us here want to bring something to the table. I generaly enjoy your conversations here (main reason I stick around), and empathize with the grief you constantly put up with from society. I also never said I felt attacked, bonsai, you can corroborate that from my previous posts,

That's strange. Does this look familiar?

"I'm also starting to think I'm weird and these people I talk about are freaks of some kind, because of the attacks or overblown arguments I've been getting from some of you"

I just said I felt some of the people from the community felt that perhaps I was putting them down simply for exposing a different reality than what you're used to seeing.

We're exposed to the reality of the larger world every day, Griz. It's inundated with parents. I didn't feel personally put down. I just don't feel as if you're respecting the integrity of this forum.

You can maybe take it as a odd cultural difference. People in my country tend to dream the American dream, but I don't condone people who work illegaly in other countries (working legally is another story), and I believe there are as many oportunities to make a good living here. My job is a perfect example of that, it's an ideal setup for a double-income family. Still, some older people like my father hold on to the notion that a dual-income family cannot succeed. I'd probably still be thinking the same thing if I didn't have the example of people at work who show me every day that it all CAN work out. At the same time, I know if both my future DH and I were working stressful full-time jobs, studying, and earning just enough to keep ourselves comfortable, it would probably be very, very hard to raise a family right.

OK, this makes sense to me. You're trying hard to work around the time-honored ways of your elders, and show them that it's possible, and even desireable, for a woman to have a career and be a mother. I applaud that. But that's not really where the vast majority of the folks on this forum are at...we know it's possible to do both. We just don't want both.

Why would any of this be meant to change your minds? that's where I think some of you are getting me wrong. It's as if I were french and I told you in France they PAY you to have kids. Would that make you change your mind about being CF? If you're really confident about your desicions I don't think you'd bat an eyelash.

My eyelashes aren't batting. Most of us are confident --- very confident --- about our decision to be CF here, Griz. A few others are fencesitters. They get the parent POV almost everywhere else they turn. Why can't they get a CF POV here?

I was just hoping all of this would be taken in more of a "hey, I didn't know that, good for them" kind of way, like if you'd heard people in india like to dine on mealworms or something.

I have no problem hearing about Indian dining habits. I would just say it's not terribly germane to what this forum is about. Kinda like your saying we're being tough on working parents because we think they've taken on a lot, but we're not willing to praise them for it. Becoming a parent is a choice. Make sure it's what you want to do before choosing it...don't do it because you're hoping people will compliment you for it and give you praise for taking on so much.

I've said many times on this forum that people who've just had babies don't deserve praise anyway. It's parents who've done the 20+ year job of raising intelligent, productive citizens to adulthood that deserve it. Unfortunately, we frontload the parties and gifts and praise, giving it to mothers of infants. Their hard work (if they indeed choose to do it --- far too many people just house and clothe their children, rather than parent them) has just begun.

But you probably just think that's another "overblown argument".

No worries, Griz. You're very welcome here, and it's always fabulous to have someone on the forum who can contribute to the collective wisdom with grace and insight. Thank you for that.

And you have a point in that CF's do tend to bash. Parents bash us, and they also bash each other. So nobody's perfect. And as Elise points out, this is a forum that is set up for us to do just that, so you'll have to excuse us if we carry on :-)

For myself, I don't have any issues at all with the people who are great parents and raise wonderful children - especially as they're never the ones who bug me with bingos and tell me how incomplete I am as a person, while their annoying brats are wrecking my surroundings. I personally think that everyone in life should be follow their heart - is it Emerald Wednesday's sig that says something along the lines of not necessarily agreeing with your choices, but fighting to the death for your right to make them?

All of us on here recognise that there are some great people on the other side of the argument. Nearly all of us would count some of them as friends. So we do know where you're coming from, believe me.

Now, if you want biffo, you need to spend some time on cf_hardcore! This is extremely tame in comparison!!