BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Odd things you've heard people say regarding kids

Well, the thing I'm talking about here is that there's no reason not to develop yourself and raise a family. Is it hard? yeah, but so is dedicating you life to becoming the best you can possibly be as a CF person.

I know I must sound kinda cooky with all my strange opinions, but the thing is, I am lucky enough to be surrounded by a slew of people who have proven to me that you can keep learning and improving yourself and your well-being without sacrificing or compromising your family. I work in a school where 60% of the teachers who are parents are also either studying to get a second degree, or working on their master's. They are ascending and getting raises or better job positions as they go (I'm not a mom yet but in 5 years of working there I have managed to attain the post of coordinator, and the only other one is a divorced mom).

Now, don't get me wrong, I still believe some people are not meant to raise children, because they don't have that insctinct in them or they enjoy other things much better, but as far as CF people being more enlightened or fulfilled or developed than parents, all I'm saying is mileage may vary on a person-to-person basis.

And I absolutely agree with you. But the thing that annoys me is that we don't go around telling parents how great they'd be as non parents. If you want to be a parent, then go right ahead. But if others want to do something else, then that should be fine too.

Why is it that it's not?

It's great that so many people at your school are working on their masters and degrees, but the thing that bothers me with that is that they have responsibilities to their spouses and kids. There are only so many hours in a day. So if they're studying, then their spouse and/or kids are not getting the quality time they deserve. Something has to give somewhere, and someone is left to pick up the slack. What's giving in their relationships? Is this why they nickname the MBA the "marriage breakup association?" :-)

We all make choices ...

That is a very good point. It is amazing to me that someone can be a teacher, be in school to get an advanced degree, raise a family, and take care of their relationship, all at the same time. I'm impressed. Wish I could do all that, though I'd probably have a nervous breakdown.

I agree that all CF people aren't more enlightened or whatever than parents. I think the issue is that the CF are assumed to be LESS enlightened, morally inferior, etc. because we're NOT a parent.

I certainly don't think that just becoming a parent makes people superior or more developed humans. So many people do it for the "status" or to fit in, or because they don't want to have to work at a real job. Those that do a great job at parenting, I believe do grow and improve themselves with the experience. But those parents doing a bad job...sorry...they're not automatically better than me just because they've done what any rabbit can do.

Well, this is just the thing here, about the breakup association... I'm not out to prove these people are perfect, just let you know that there IS a way to make it all work. These people I mentioned, the school gives them a good working environment and enough time that giving quality time to their families is still possible. Take the principal for example, he is a father of 3, both he and his wife are principals at separate schools, and all three of their kids are honor roll students, polite, happy and well-adjusted. His youngest is a second grader at our school and the only problem with her is that she's annoyingly perfect for an 8 year-old. This man can tell you EVERYTHING about his children, even his teenager.

That, and he has a master's degree in history. That's just ONE example.

I don't know, perhaps it's just an incredibly rare and extraordinary working environment and peculiar conditions. If it is then I'm really happy I work there.

And as far as CF telling parents they'd be really good non-parents, my stance has always been that I really dislike the people who meddle into other's affairs or tell them how to live their lives. I wholeheartedly respect CFs right to decide not to have children and dedicate themselves to what they deem worthy of their efforts. I'll be the first to tell a parent to get their noses out of other people's business and just respect them for who they are, but I also believe in being fair to everyone, and some parents also have their very worthy merits.

YES!!! you hit the nail right in the head, I wholeheartedly agree with you

I know I must sound kinda cooky with all my strange opinions, but the thing is, I am lucky enough to be surrounded by a slew of people who have proven to me that you can keep learning and improving yourself and your well-being without sacrificing or compromising your family.

Right, true. The only thing that's missing is any vestige of free time for yourself. There is no free lunch, Griz. There are only 24 hours in a day. If people want to be parents and have full-time jobs and go back to school part-time, that is GREAT --- don't get me wrong. I just get tired of those who do all (or some) of that list who feel that having a saner pace in life is to be looked down upon.

Now, don't get me wrong, I still believe some people are not meant to raise children, because they don't have that insctinct in them or they enjoy other things much better, but as far as CF people being more enlightened or fulfilled or developed than parents, all I'm saying is mileage may vary on a person-to-person basis.

Absolutely..."YMMV" applies. It's about choice. But remember, Griz, that most CFs are on this group after years of their choices being derided by parents, who (rather than accept our choice) say we're not "ready" to have kids (as if the only goal, the ultimate test, of being an adult is "readiness" to parent). Parenting is one of a range of fulfilling things one can do as an adult, but it's only fulfilling if it's what you want.

I've had lots of parents --- good ones, who really take the job seriously and who have great kids, or are doing an amazing job helping their kids through a rough patch, or even a few foster parents who are helping kids who've gotten a really lousy deal in their earlier lives --- tell me I'd be a good parent. I take it as a compliment...but only coming from a good parent. There's a bunch of important jobs out there I'd be good at, but I've had to make tradeoffs and I'm doing the one I chose (I teach high school music). Not being a parent has also cleared the decks for me to take care of my grandfather in his final years, to take care of my mother's affairs, to be there on a consistent basis for a friend who's HIV positive (he lives 100 miles away), to be a Big Sister, to substitute for the Meals on Wheels people during the summer when I can, etc., etc.

Lots of parents say I'd be a good parent, but that I'm not "ready". I say "thanks", because they intend it as a compliment --- but inwardly I'm saying "It's not that I'm 'not ready'. It's that I 'don't want to'".

*Right, true. The only thing that's missing is any vestige of free time for yourself. There is no free lunch, Griz. There are only 24 hours in a day. If people want to be parents and have full-time jobs and go back to school part-time, that is GREAT --- don't get me wrong. I just get tired of those who do all (or some) of that list who feel that having a saner pace in life is to be looked down upon.*

Yes, no free time, *for a while*. School doesn't last forever, children don't last forever (not being kids or living under their parents' roof anyway) and work doesn't last forever. People set their priorities based on very different standards, but there's nothing wrong with someone who chooses to keep their "dance card" full for a couple or twenty years, unless, as you say, they start talking down at people who choose differently. This cuts both ways.

And like I said and I'm starting to realize more and more, our work situation is very peculiar. Our work hours run from 7am to 2pm, workdays are monday through friday, and that's it. We get paid vacations during holidays and summer vacations. I guess it IS an ideal work setup for a parent. Most parent/teachers who study either do it through adult courses specially designed to either be 3 hours every late afternoon or about 9 hours on saturdays.

*Absolutely..."YMMV" applies. It's about choice. But remember, Griz, that most CFs are on this group after years of their choices being derided by parents, who (rather than accept our choice) say we're not "ready" to have kids (as if the end goal of being an adult is "readiness" to parent. It's one of a range of fulfilling things one can do as an adult, but it's only fulfilling if it's what you want).*

I understand, and as I've said before, I've experieced enough of this to sympathize completely. People always questioned my own "readiness" to get married or be a parent, when in reality nobody is entitled to make that kind of desicion for someone else. I made sure I looked exhaustively for a man who could be a good partner and who shared my same views on family life. Now that I've found him I'm sure I can move ahead, because we have a common goal. No, parenting is not the absolute be-all and end-all of human fulfillment, and people who choose to lead those ultra-busy lives are doing it on the basis of personal choice, which is everyone's God-given right to make.

OR they don't raise children because they CAN'T or it didn't work out for them. Not everyone has a linear storybook life, where they meet the perfect partner in their 20's and are able to get into a financially secure situation while they are still young enough to have children. Some of us - like me - find themselves single and childless, and penniless, when they didn't expect to (as in my case - my first husband left me in a devastating way when I was 31). There are many reasons why people are child free. The other night on the bus I overheard a young woman of around 20 sharing her plans for her life with a friend. She had it all planned out - she wants to have children precisely when she is 28. I hope it works out for her. I hope it works out for you too. It doesn't for everyone.

OMG Griz! You've totally changed my mind! I CAN have it all! What was I thinking, that I need more than 5 minutes a day to myself? Pshaw! No free time "for a while?" What ... why .... how come I didn't realize that EARLIER? It's only what, 18 years? A quarter of my life, if I'm lucky. If I'm not, then it's only a third or so of no free time. I guess it must all stop at 18. What have I been thinking all this time? I can totally work three jobs and have oodles of kids, I'm thinking maybe, oh, shoot, 19 to beat those rabbits that are in the news lately.

In fact, I'm going to call the husband right now and tell him to come home and impregnate me. I guess I've been thinking about this all wrong the whole time!

Wow Ingilbert. I guess we won't be hearing too much from you in the future! Good luck with that.
(snicker)

This is reminding me of a Truemomconfession that came up the other day (our lovely forum was down so I had to stew over it alone).

It was like this (roughly paraphrased):

"People who say babies are expensive are wrong. They are cheap. You can feed them for free from your breast for at least a year. You can use cloth diapers. All you need is a crib and a few onesies, and a sling or stroller if you want to ever leave the house. As the kid grows you can get used clothes and hand-me-downs. Anything else is unnecessary."

I've heard this kind of argument before, and it does make me wonder if this idea that everyone spends $500K to raise a child is really accurate. There are plenty of families (like those that have 17 children) who don't spend nearly that much per child. Maybe it can be done much cheaper and it's just those excessive "keeping up with the Jones' families that are skewing the statistics. Anyway, I'm curious about that. It's seems like people who've been there think you're crazy if you ask why babies are so expensive.

Anyway, it's another of these anti-intuitive arguments...like yes, you can actually work full time, get a higher degree, keep up your hobbies, and raise numerous well-adjusted children all at the same time...plenty of people do it with style. If you can't do that and still find time to lay in the hammock eating bonbons...something MUST be wrong with you!

I don't mean to pick on what you were saying Griz...I'm being an overexaggerator...it's my nature). If there are workplaces (is this happening in America?) that can make all that possible for people, then that's very cool. I've never had a job like that. I was a serial part-time job person before becoming a freelancer, and only would take jobs that are less than 32 hours a week. To me the extra free time is worth making less money. But I found out the hard way that part-time jobs are a mirage. You're expected to do a full-time job in less hours, for less money, with lots of resentment from your coworkers.