BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Buddhism We cannot find happiness.....

....by constantly criticising the truth when it smacks us in the face.

This is an honest thread, with the intention of engendering logical, amiable, intelligent discussion.
I would greatly welcome, open armed, any response which might add fruit and bear scrutiny, appraisal, cogitation - and that would stimulate our cognitive and deeper abilities to really get to the bottom of things....



Buddhism is about examining the teachings and finding the truth of them. The indisputable, undeniable truth, and accepting it, and living it.
Why then, do we constantly turn away from these facts, and insist that we can find alternatives to them, by burying our heads in the sand and remaining convinced that The Truths related to us by the Buddha's words and the Sutras, can be disputed if we deny them for long enough?

The Four Noble truths are that Life is Difficult, that it is made Difficult by our grasping and clinging to the Ephemeral and Impermanent, that there is a way through this Difficulty and that this way is the Middle way, the Noble Eighfold Path.

Furthermore, there are other fundamental Truths:

AN 5.57
Upajjhatthana Sutta

(Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu)

"There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five?

(1) 'I am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging.'

(2) 'I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness.' ...

(3) 'I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death.' ...

(4) 'I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.' ...

(5) 'I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.' ...

These are the five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."

These Truths are a matter for distinct and constant contemplation and awareness, in Buddhist philosophy, whereas in many cultures they are actively shunned, swept under the carpet, not discussed, thought about or addressed, and largely ignored in the hope that they will go away. 'They happen to other people, but not to me' kind of attitude.
But of course, they won't go away, because they are with us daily. And they most certainly DO happen to us, and we are very much a distinct part and parcel, tangible real and living proof, that these things are here with us always, Here, and Now.

So why, when we are faced, fairly and squarely with these ultimate, indisputable truths, do we choose to bristle and bridle at them, to greet them with disbelief, disdain or hostility?
What on earth is there within these matters that can awaken such a resistance?

Discuss......

As my grandmother used to say, some pills are just hard to swallow. Some people just plain don't want to hear these things. I don't understand why. This will be a good subject for discussion. Even before I discovered Buddhism, I really believed in #5. I don't understand how someone can blame someone/thing for their actions when we all have brains and are capable of thinking for ourselves. I think the exception is when you are being manipulated by someone such as in an abusive relationship or you have a gun to your head. Thank you

[quote=MettaMaid]....by constantly criticising the truth when it smacks us in the face.

This is an honest thread, with the intention of engendering logical, amiable, intelligent discussion.
I would greatly welcome, open armed, any response which might add fruit and bear scrutiny, appraisal, cogitation - and that would stimulate our cognitive and deeper abilities to really get to the bottom of things....



Buddhism is about examining the teachings and finding the truth of them. The indisputable, undeniable truth, and accepting it, and living it.
Why then, do we constantly turn away from these facts, and insist that we can find alternatives to them, by burying our heads in the sand and remaining convinced that The Truths related to us by the Buddha's words and the Sutras, can be disputed if we deny them for long enough?

The Four Noble truths are that Life is Difficult, that it is made Difficult by our grasping and clinging to the Ephemeral and Impermanent, that there is a way through this Difficulty and that this way is the Middle way, the Noble Eighfold Path.

Furthermore, there are other fundamental Truths:

AN 5.57
Upajjhatthana Sutta

(Translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu)

"There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five?

(1) 'I am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging.'

(2) 'I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness.' ...

(3) 'I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death.' ...

(4) 'I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.' ...

(5) 'I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.' ...

These are the five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."

These Truths are a matter for distinct and constant contemplation and awareness, in Buddhist philosophy, whereas in many cultures they are actively shunned, swept under the carpet, not discussed, thought about or addressed, and largely ignored in the hope that they will go away. 'They happen to other people, but not to me' kind of attitude.
But of course, they won't go away, because they are with us daily. And they most certainly DO happen to us, and we are very much a distinct part and parcel, tangible real and living proof, that these things are here with us always, Here, and Now.

So why, when we are faced, fairly and squarely with these ultimate, indisputable truths, do we choose to bristle and bridle at them, to greet them with disbelief, disdain or hostility?
What on earth is there within these matters that can awaken such a resistance?

Discuss......

[/quote
MettaMaid-I, first, must state I know little about the buddhist religion. I do not practice it. Do you still wish for me to join in this discussion? If so, may I ask what the Middle Way is as I am completely unfamiliar with it. You may want to be informed as to what my beliefs are before answering, and to that I would have to say I am pagan, beliving in earth-based Native American spirituality. I'll wait for your reply before continueing.

Does Buddhism preach having no relationship?

NADAURZ:
The Middle Way is basically addressing every decision, and practicing neither total abstinence, nor gross excess.

It's like eating until you have had enough, but not necessarily finishing the food on your plate.
It's like knowing when enough is enough, and being wise and considerate enough to know the limit.
But sometimes, quite naturally, desire, greed and possessiveness can manifest. And this is ok. They are understandable emotions, because we feel that to release, or possibly go with less - or even without - is to deprive ones' self of comfort and stability.
In fact, it is ok to want the comforts of life. Of course it is.
But you (and i'm using the 'You' generally) have to realise that everything you buy, own possess, require and have - does not "belong" to you.... It was in someone else's hands before yours, and may well pass on to someone else afterwards. Everything has a beginning, a middle and an end. So we have to come to the realisation that possessing something - be it a house, relationship, a dog a boat or a parent - will come to an end, in one way or another.
This, on first thought, is sad. Or seems to be. But if you can find present delight in your own existence, in the state of things exactly as they are, and appreciate the joyous wonder of your being, here and now, these things then click into place.

So attachment to another being is wonderful. To be in love, is a great thing.
But to consider it the be all and end all of happiness, and to wish to latch on to a relationship because it will give you some kind of lasting fulfilment, is an erroneous point of view.....

MANJARI, I hope the above answers your questions.....

How does this help us in getting into relationship? That was the post from where you came. I am looking for relationship. I know that it will not give me lasting peace. But thst is OK. Give me some idea about how to get a great partner who will love me like crazy?

Why do you say the Four Noble Truths can't be disputed? Isn't that only true within the buddhist faith if that is what you believe? Life on this earth in itself is short-lived and temporary. We as individuals have the ability to make our time here easier or harder by the way we live and what we believe. In a capitalist society such as I live in, life is difficult and it is easy depending on who you are and the amount in your bank account. I see "life isn't fair" to be more truthful. I, personally, am not seeking eternal, everlasting happiness. I do not believe it exists in this phase of life. I believe it comes after we leave our human bodies, setting our souls free to go to another realm that I, as of yet, do not know! I agree with the Middle Way to some extent. It reminds me of socialism, where the wealth is shared. Anyways, my point is ...with so many religions, political views, types of governments, etc., how can you claim the 4Noble Truths are undisputable. They are so only within your own reality. No?

Pratibha, relationships are always started with the intention of loving your partner like crazy, and having them do the same for you.
And initially, you get that rush, that buzz, that wonderful elated feeling.
But does it last?
Is it constant?
Is it continuous?

No.
You find out he snores like a bull, and he leaves his clothes on the floor, everywhere.
He never washes up, and he forgets your birthday.
Some initially endearing habits then start to get on your nerves.
So you see, For someone to love you like crazy, all the time and for ever, it must be unconditional.
And your love for him must be unconditional too....

In order to love someone likem crazy, and have that relationship last, you must drop all pre-conditions, all expectations.
Release your desire and be open, free and willing to love the one you meet as you wish yourself to be loved.


When people enter into a relationship, it is with the desire for this to happen, but unless two are of one mind, it never can.

If what you say is true, MettaMaid, it could only be the relationship between a person and their god for it to be a healthy one. Unconditional love exists between parent and child only. A love between man and woman is always conditional to some extent. With time ,commitment, and met conditions the love becomes an enduring love and can span a lifetime, but don't take it for granted. There is a deal breaker around every corner.

Nadaurz, The four Noble truths are so called because they have found nothing to dispute them
The word "difficult" (1st Noble Truth) in Pali origin, is "Dukka". This has variously been translated as: Suffering, difficult, unsatisfactory, challenging, up-and-down and even 'a [censored]' - !!

So, with this premise, we can better understand the lesson:
Life is 'all of the above'.

Clarification:
There are two kinds of difficulty (just to simplify, I'll narrow it down to difficulty):
There are first, the difficulties we face within the physical human frame, of illnesses, diseases, damage and injuries, fatal illnesses and eventually a break-down, and death.
The second kind is the emotional, psychological fretting, worrying, adherence to the emotional desires, needs, wants and insistances we burden ourselves with....

The Second Noble Truth is -
That we suffer, because we desire things to remain on a permanent even keel. We always want to be well, we always want to be prosperous, we always want the best things in life - not only for ourselves, but also for our loved ones - and we know we never can have them, but we hang onto the fervent desire that we could, maybe, if we work/try/wish hard enough, we can have them.
And it is this clinging, this hope, this desire, that prolongs our suffering....
The Third noble truth is that:
There is a way out of this cyclical, constant, repetitive yes/no, up/down/ fluctuation of happy/sad, good/bad....

The Fourth Noble Truth is the Eightfold Path.
This consists of Eight recommendations or guidelines - signposts advising us on the best way to consider what we pwrceive, how to view things, how to speak....But these are up to the individual to use as aids within their own parameters of following the Path....


This is where our personal evaluation comes in.
The Eightfold path is watertight. it is a solid map of how we can successfully gain inner peace, serenity and joy, at all times, no matter waht goes on externally.
But how we apply them, is up to us.