BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids my latest theory

If you recall, my first post here was questioning the perception of the CF being "selfish." This really bothers me! I've come up with an idea and would be interested to know what you think.

It started simmering after reading some posts (especially Myra's) in the thread about being "trained" for motherhood - I relate so much to the elements of not wearing make up or being especially fashion-conscious ... I don't want to "put on a face" I just want to enjoy living my life as *me*! THis made me speculate that perhaps the CFBC (childfree by choice) are more aware of who they are - more comfortable in their own skin - more in tune with what brings them joy & passion - what they want from life.

So - perhaps people saying that the CF are "selfish" really means that the CF have realized and embraced their power to truly know themselves, choose their path in life as far as they are able to do, and live with the joy, passion, and peace of knowing they are truly following the right path for them. I would consider myself a parent by choice (PBC?) - as I need to feel that the important decisions of my life are not simply "defaults" but are truly where my heart, soul, etc. is calling me to go.

Don't you think that someone who has taken a passive, helpless role and basically let major choices in their lives "just happen" - don't you think they might feel angry, resentful, etc. at those who obviously know themselves & are overall happy & comfortable with their lives? But they can't say "gee, you really have thought this through ... I never wanted to take the trouble, had the courage, or even KNEW I could do what is true to myself" No way! People need to justify the decisions they've made, even the bad ones. So instead they will try to turn their adversary into soemthing negative like "selfish."

Other thoughts that rushed in when I was pondering this - a post by someone on a different thread that having a baby seems to be the default way of saying "look I have a purpose in life" ... instead of doing the (often hard) work of figuring out who you are and finding your purpose from that.

Also the following quotes from 'the blue castle" by LUcy Maude Montgomery:

"that's all the freedom we can hope for - the freedom to choose our own prison."
"the prison into which we doom ourselves no prison is"

I mean, if you think of it there could be an argument that marriage is a "prison" - it restricts many aspects of your life. But if you choose marriage with your heart & soul, it is far from a prison - it is wonderful!

As a PBC I have chosen to become a parent (and having gone through infertility, I am so grateful to be able to be a parent). It *is* confining in alot of ways, but it is in harmony with a deep desire in my heart, so it is worth it. Just like my love, commitment & desire for my husband - every year we grow closer, though of course we have our moments. I'm realizing from all the TMC how precious this is.

Perhaps a very well-aware person might choose to not marry because it would just be too restrictive & impose too many responsibilities for what they profoundly want to do - medical work in a 3rd world country, or be an astronaut, volunteer with the desperate poor in the world, or whatever.

Again from "the blue castle" - "there is no such thing as freedom on earth ... only different kinds of bondages. And comparative bondages. You think you are free now because you've escaped from a peculiarly unbearable kind of bondage. But are you? You love me - that's a bondage."

The difference when you have made a *choice* - you have chosen your own situation with its responsibilities. If you haven't stepped up to the plate, you inherit the consequences of not choosing.

So, is this just the glass of wine that I had talking? Does this make sense to anyone else?

Andie

Ps. Another quote that's been going through my mind - from a song by "they might be giants" ..."now I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want/or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do." I can't decide which would be worse! Both sound like someone completely detattched from their passion in life.

Pps. I don't mean to imply that it's solely laziness or whatever that prevents people from making a choice. I think our society does not encourage, and perhaps actively discourages, people from the solitude, silence, and work of really knowing themselves.

Ppps. Ok should I have another glass of wine or switch to water ???!!!

Actually, I really think you're on to something. I think one of the main things that characterizes the best parents, and the CF, is the fact that they know themselves very well, have examined how they want to live, and have made very conscious and informed choices about their life paths. That could very well seem threatening or inspire a lot of envy in someone who hasn't made those efforts and later wishes they had. Excellent post!

Andie:

OMG, you are totally freaking me out. I had a nightmare one night this week that I was in prison for something I didn't do. I just moved in with my DH2B (like three months ago) and I'm struggling with the adjustment a little bit. And he said to me tonight that he couldn't help but see the connection between my having a dream about being in prison and our impending marriage (getting married in October.) Anyway, I just told him you wrote about marriage can be like prison in a way, and he was equally stunned by the coincidence. You posted 49 minutes ago, which was around the time we were talking about this. Anyway, I know it's a major adjustment, and we will work through. I've been really independent and had my own place for years, and I know marriage will be wonderful with my guy. But it's going to take time.

Anyway, I agree with a lot of what you said. And I absolutely agree that PBCs exist as well as CBCs. It's hard to know who's who, but the parents that enjoy and excel at parenting probably had more of an idea of the big picture. Some people that didn't plan for it sometimes make great parents, too. But I've seen a lot of the people that get pregnant accidentally never fully adopt their responsibilities. It's a shame for the kids.

I have always been a deep thinker, and even been faulted for "thinking too much." But it's just natural to me. I definitely agree with your parallel about people that aren't "self-actualized" can try to fast forward to a meaningful life through having a child. We've talked about it on this board before - some women that have kids don't have a lot of other stuff going on in their life. They never developed special skills, hobbies or interests, and having a child gives them something to do and also catapults them into a position of instant respect. The pregnancy part is a lot easier than say going to grad school to pursue your dream. But, of course, the parenting part is long lasting. We've also talked about the flip side of that - CFs feel invisible sometimes b/c they don't have kids. Or sometimes our achievements go unnoticed when the baby photos are passed around.

One of the main reasons I don't want kids is b/c I want to continue to do my writing and fundraising. I am very creative, and want to use those skills. And I've found I can be most creative when I have a place to think and explore, which is kind of what you were talking about above, too. Some people like the "noise" so they don't have to think. But I have to have it. Thanks for posting - you are a very thoughtful, cool person.

My writing is my path, and I found it by doing self-exploration. I think everyone probably has many talents, but sadly, some people never let themselves try things, or think outside the box. It's the only way to find yourself, though. That's the kicker.

A CF book I read talked about the special hobbies of the CF. They postured, are CFs more creative or talented? But then they answered their own question, in some ways, CFs have more time to get to know themselves, develop hobbies, interests, which may actually lead them to their CF path. Their interests may be more important or meaningful to them than having a family. Or they may be more in touch with what works and doesn't work for them. Don't misunderstand - knowing oneself can also lead to parenthood. But a more conscious choice to parent.

My hubby and I were having the 'selfish' discussion earlier. I said that, yes, people who want to focus on themselves are selfish, per one definition: Concerned chiefly or only with oneself And I have no problem being called selfish(though I do put my husband on the same level as myself in that, we are considered selfish for wanting to focus on our marriage)

However, my husband argues that 'selfish' has a negative connotation, and doesn't really apply to CF-ers. People who call CF-ers selfish generally mean that they care more for themselves than for the prospective child. But if there is no child to 'love', how is it selfish to not have one? There is no person you're putting yourself over in choosing not to have a child. Hubby likens it to being in a plane crash...if you hoard all the food and no one else can have it, you're selfish. But if you're the only survivor, no one would call you selfish for taking all the food. So without a harmed or offended party, there is no selfishness.

And then there's the fact that I always feel people who choose to have kids are usually selfish, seeing as people always say, "I want a child." 'I want' is a selfish statement. No child chooses to be born, and no parent knows if their child will have a happy life or not. They are having the kid because they wanted to be a parent. I can't think of many people who's first thought is, "I want to create a productive and happy member of society." It's, "I want a baby!" They have their mommy/daddy feelings that need to be fulfilled, regardless of anything else. They are creating a new person in this world who will, guaranteed, have some very bad, unhappy moments. This person will experience misery and sadness and anger and hate. And judging by the suicide rate, some will feel they would have been better off never being born. And maybe they will cause others misery. Maybe they will rape or kill or steal. But just so long as the parents can feel like parents and hold a baby for a while...who cares about the future?

The thing about being in a mutually agreed CF relationship is...the worst someone else can be is disappointed by your decision.

I concur.

It's always easier to blame the "other" group, the group that easily stands out, the group that thinks and is very happy being "not of the body" -- ie the childfree. Why would everyone else, the typical "I must have a child -- everyone says I must" person, want to critically think about their kid-based decisions--when that line of thinking could very easily make them look bad and self-depreciated (and the S word -- "selfish")?
They have us, the "biologial rebels" that "thumb our noses" at the norm, to blame. So be it.

Let's look at the some of the lyrics, very slightly changed... for "Blame Canada" from the South Park Movie -- and you'll see it does ring true

Everyone: Blame the childfree
Shame on the childfree!
For...
The smut we must stop
The trash we must bash
The Laughter and fun
Must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before somebody thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!!!

=====

The way to spread our way of thinking is to just keep on doing what we do. Don't be in other people's faces about it. If asked, be nice and gentle (if possible -- I know that is next to impossible with certain people). Lead by example. Keep having fun, doing what we want. It's not flaunting -- it is being real. Plant the thoughts in someone's mind, and with luck, it will grow and more people will see the light. We will never know if we, directly, affect someone's life. Perhaps we will help someone think and make the right decision down the line. Christians call this "planting a seed." Maybe it will grow and the "unbelievers" will see the light later on, maybe years down the road. Note that this path is not always easy -- you will see people who hate you for being a believer/childfree. You may get into arguments with people because your POV is opposite of what "everyone else" thinks. You just have to put up a good face, let it wash off of you, and continue to lead by example.

Personally, I am not a Christian at all -- I am an athiest. However, a very good friend who IS a "live the biblical life" Christian has told me that is how she/they "evangalize" -- never in your face, only answer when asked about it, never be confrontational, be helpful only when appropriate, and lead by example. I disagree with her outlook on religion, however, the tactic does make sense.

The advantage to this is that we are not being hypocritical. My wife and I are not hypocritical with our CF stance or lack of religious belief. My long-time Christian friend is not hypocritical in her religious belief/lifestyle (that is why we've gotten along very well for 12+ years). We live what we believe. There is a LOT to be said about that, respect-wise. Being a hypocrite, IMHO, is one of the worst things I can think of, especially when it comes to something as big as your religion and/or lifestyle. Just don't live a lie -- be true to yourself and what you believe, and others will notice.

Sorry about the rant-like quality of this post, but this is the culmination of being "in the minority" of American society's "norms" in really big areas of my/our lives.

Great post Andie! I've pondered this theory too, but you've articulated much better than I ever could, with a glass of wine no less!

Being CFBC automatically requires that you think about your life choices and attempt to follow your true path, since being CFBC requires a certain amount of effort (diligent birth control, no socially acceptable life script to follow, other than nun, monk or priest!). On the other hand, parenthood is the default choice - some parents (like you) have thoughtfully chosen this path, while others just let it happen to them. I've never understood what's so selfish about knowing yourself and making thoughtful choices. It seems to me that it's more selfish to just let parenthood happen to you, if you don't really want it, or get married just because you think you should.

I also agree with your theory about how the script followers react to non-script followers. I've often noticed that people who take the time to know themselves and follow their true path in life, whether or not that path includes children, are extremely threatening to those who just follow the life script. In my experience, my friends who have chosen to become parents because that is what they truly want, never make condescending comments about my choice to be CF. They are comfortable with their decision and appreciate that I'm happy with my choice. On the other hand....I know quite a few others who just let life happen, and those are the ones who feel compelled to make the critical comments.

The people who "walk the walk" don't complain or feel the need to criticize others, no matter what end of the spectrum they are on (PBC or CFBC). Unfortunately, the path of least resistance (just do it without thought, be it marriage or parenthood), constitues, by far, the largest group. From that group are the cruel, heartless people who can't stand to see others happier than they are. Being PBC or CFBC does require thought, effort, and planning, along with truly knowing your own true desires. Sadly, almost no one wants to go through that much mental effort nowadays. Being a good planner for your future has it's own toll, but the rewards are well worth it.

[quote=Andie]The difference when you have made a *choice* - you have chosen your own situation with its responsibilities. If you haven't stepped up to the plate, you inherit the consequences of not choosing...I don't mean to imply that it's solely laziness or whatever that prevents people from making a choice. I think our society does not encourage, and perhaps actively discourages, people from the solitude, silence, and work of really knowing themselves.[quote=Andie]
This is interesting. My guy and I were talking about this the other day. One of my teacher's told me early on that not making a decision is equivalent to making one. She was talking about not deciding what I wanted to do for a living, or not deciding to go to college. But it's true for a lot of things. I agree that society doesn't want people thinking too much. Organized religion is really big on trying to prevent people from questioning. Although I think most religions are based on basic, common truths, if you poke around too much, the house of cards can come toppling down. If I hadn't questioned Catholicism, my life would be SO different right now. Other people do well with that path, but it isn't for me, and was ruining my life. But they tell you not to question the tenets too much, so you feel guilty for wondering. And it's like you aren't "allowed" to not believe certain things, But it's the only way to make that jump, and get out of that box. But I read a really cool book when I was struggling with theology, and someone else (the author) was questioning the same stuff I was questioning! I don't know where I would be if I had never read that book. Anyway, not to get off topic. The book was Conversations with God.

Awesome post, Andie! And I love the subsequent comments! As I read through them, one thought kept coming to mind: This conversation was started by a parent, but would never have been acceptable on a parenting board. All kinds of hell would have broken loose. There would have been vicious comments with angry replies instead of calm, introspective, educated, thoughtful responses.

The people on this board, including parents like Andie, are so much more secure in our decisions than a large percentage of parents. It MUST be because we are thinkers. I've been accused of over- thinking things all my life. I should start taking it as a compliment, because the pay offs are huge!

Thank you all for all your posts. I'm grateful everyday that I have this board to come "home" to when the rest of the world is pushing a script in my hands and telling me not to ad lib.