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Tami S #321788 06/13/07 06:36 PM
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That is very interesting Tami, and thank you for explaining!!!

I'm trying to figure out what might be meant by "translating desire into something our physical bodies understand." It sounds intriguing, but i'm wondering what "desire" would be in quantum physics terms, which to my knowlege is going either have to be either energy or matter.

In medicine they would explain the relationship of mind and body in terms of electrical charge and chemistry. "Thoughts" have chemical signatures... it's an area not fully understood yet but a lot of research is being done to try to understand it better. There is even research being done near here in Cleveland where they are trying to develop computers based on chemistry instead of electronics, to better model the human brain and it's capacity. In existing computers, information is still stored in "bits" which is basically binary information, each "bit" being able to say only either "yes" or "no" so you need a lot of bits to get anywhere. But if they can develop a chemistry based computer, then each unit can have any of a number of meanings, and computers could be much more complex and more similar to the human mind. One of their hurdles in developing this technology is actually keeping conditions clean enough, so that the chemistry (and therefore information) is not compromised.

Okay, back to the Heisenberg principle, for anyone interested (don't feel you have to be)... So, a lot of times people think that the Heisenberg principle tells us that our OBSERVATION changes the actual outcome of the experiment... that our observation changes, in fact, the subatomic particles. Well, i have not read the actual Heisenberg principle... most people will not have, because it's technical and boring unless you have a lot of scientific understanding to follow it. Most people in science classes will learn about it through some abstract which tries to explain it in accessible terms. But the actual Heisenberg Principle is VERY SPECIFIC to trying to calculate direction and velocity, or time and energy. And i thought of an analogy... those of you who've done any algebra or pre-algebra... you know how when you get a formula with more than one variable (like x and y, with neither being defined), but you can only solve for ONE variable at a time and you have to explain it in a formula which contains other variables on the other side of the equation? You can solve for x, OR you can solve for y, but you CAN'T solve for both simultaneously... and if i'm not mistaken, that's what i think the Heisenberg Principle is like. You can solve for velocity OR you can solve for location, but not both simultaneously... i think. So anyway, the Heisenberg principle DOES NOT really say that we influence outcome through observation... at least that's what i hear from scientists. BUT ---! ...it doesn't rule it out either! We might! So it launched a huge debate in the scientific world as to whether we do influence reality or not!!!

So then the next thing happened. Lots of scientists were VERY interested in Heisenberg in particular, because at the time we had WWII and Heisenberg was trying to develop the atomic bomb for Nazi Germany and scientists were scared to death what might happen if he could do it. So they looked at ALL his writings with a fine tooth comb. Anyway, along came a guy named Schrodinger... another physicist. We've all been affected by him!!!... because HE won the nobel prize for discovering double helix DNA! (good job!) But i think this was much earlier in his career... that he was fascinated by what people were reading into the Heisenberg Principle, and he started wondering if we do INDEED influence reality, so he started theorizing about it, and his theory became known as SCHRODINGER'S CAT.

Before i tell you what his theory is, please know that NO CATS were actually used or killed! This was NOT an experiment, this was a theory! You can't prove this by experimenting! (If you think it through you'll see why). But please ALSO note, that Schrodinger's Cat, too, does not actually say we influence OUTCOMES... though frequently it is misinterpretted to think that we do... so anyway, if you get curious and start looking at the internet for it, just be cautious you're using sites that have a good reputation in this field. The Schrodinger's Cat theory is kind of like the zen koan: "If a tree falls in a forest with no one to hear, does it make a sound?" Only in this case it's "If you seal a cat in a box and give it a 50/50 chance of being killed, is the cat NEITHER alive nor dead until you open the box?" or something like that. This blog actually explains it the best i've ever seen it explained, and very responsibly, bravo to the author!!!

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Last edited by hollyelise; 06/13/07 06:48 PM.
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hollyelise #321845 06/14/07 01:40 AM
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Holly,
you have written this post like a Nobel laureate.
I will read it again to understand.

Modern Woman #321859 06/14/07 01:58 AM
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Oh heavens, no i haven't!!!

hollyelise #321860 06/14/07 01:59 AM
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That was a compliment Holly.

Modern Woman #321861 06/14/07 02:25 AM
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thank you.

Tami S #321905 06/14/07 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tami S
Hi Holly,

It took me a minute, but now I understand what you are asking. Please know that I'm no scientist (I did take upper sciences in highschool and some in college though).

Yes, this is beyond all the stuff we learned in Chemistry and other sciences. This relates to our bodies specifically and how it impacts our minds and bodies. It is the latest research on our brain and our belief systems.

You mentioned that Heisenberg found sub-atomic particles. What I've heard is they only recently discovered is that underneath everything is nothing; no particles and only energy. I'm not talking about the universe outside. I'm talking about INSIDE our bodies.

I was speaking directly in reference to what das had said about changing a belief system about our body.

My first true introduction of this concept wasn't even called "Quantum Physics". I later realized it was called that by watching the two movies, "What the bleep do we know?" and "The Secret". "What the bleep" carefully explains it. Have you seen it?

By watching the movies, I understood them to say that it is only recently that science has proved there is actually nothing solid to us at the base level of our molecules. They were surprised to find out there was no substance, but actually only energy that remains.


smile Tami, I'm no scientist, either, and have about the same education as yourself, so please don't discredit yourself on my account.

When you say "it was only recently discovered that underneath everything is nothing" it makes me think of a couple of things... first, i was always taught that there is more "nothing" in the universe than matter... even in our own bodies because of the vast distances between the minute particles (my teacher once described it as a particle of matter being like a grain of sand in an empty football field, next to another football field), but come to think of it, when atoms are described as relationships of energy (formerly "shells"... i don't remember what they were revised to called at present) ...i always saw the energy as being the building blocks of matter but i don't think that was ever really explained in highschool. (?????) Other than... you remember seeing the atomic chart somewhere? Chemistry class, maybe? Every chemical element is defined in terms of it's atomic energy... it's protons, etc... energy. Doesn't that imply all matter is constructed of energy? But that is not new... the atomic chart has been around for...!!! longer than me, anyway!!!

But the other thing that came to mind was a vague memory of learning about "particle-wave duality"... this stuff was a little thick for me, but basically ...and again these were old experiments, maybe around the 1920's... anyway, they learned through experiments with light that it sometimes behaves like particles (matter), and sometimes behaves like waves (energy)!

It kinda sounds to me like what you saw had something to do with that (particle-wave duality), even though as you said it was in the context of the human body... i dont' see as it matters whether it's in the body or in the universe, it would all be the same laws of physics.... anyway, sometimes i've seen the duality mentioned with matter in general, and that sounds like what you are describing. If more has been discovered about the nature of this, that would be really fascinating!

I did a little sleuthing around on the 'net... i didn't find much new stuff about particle-wave theory, but i did find this website which explains it, or tries to, in simple terms (maybe this is why they call it "relativity" - joke!):BellaOnline ALERT: For anti-spam reasons, we restrict the number of URLs allowed in a given post. You have exceeded our maximum number of URLs.

Tami S #321908 06/14/07 04:39 AM
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Tami,

You are giving two theroies.

One about all being energy.
that is pure physics.

Second about pathways in the mind.
that is not physics.

I do not know how can we connect the two.
Any legible explanation?


Modern Woman #321909 06/14/07 04:43 AM
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Tami and Holly,

Science has many explanations about the world.
I have asked this to few scientists but got no answer.
Science has no answer.

Our dead body is also made up of atoms that have energy.
If you cut a cell from a dead body and watch it under electronic microscope you will find the electrons moving around .
That is true about every dead particle in the universe.
Every atom has this energy.

But what about life?
How is a live body different than a dead body according to quantum physics?
No answer.

Modern Woman #321916 06/14/07 05:06 AM
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smile

Sometimes the unanswered questions are more fascinating than what we've learned. smile

It would be kinda disappointing if we knew everything, don't you think? What would be left to learn tomorrow? Or just wonder about?

Maybe not knowing the answer to the difference between a live body and a dead body... serves to remind us of how precious life is.

I "learned" once about conception. I could probably roughly describe it in terms of sexuality, sperm, ovum, DNA, genetics, cell division, etc. But none of that explains how it feels, when you hear there will be a new life in your family, or when a little one grabs your finger.

hollyelise #321920 06/14/07 05:59 AM
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lovely post Holly.

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