BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Aboutthe power of the mind

Ok, is there not a forum in here for all this stuff. If I want to read fantasy I will go to a fantasy forum.

So, you basically disregarded the question entirely. Are you claiming that Buddhists (and your school of Buddhism in particular) have a monopoly on the term karma? That the Hindu definition of karma (which predates the buddhist by quite a bit, btw) isn't relevant to the original question asked?



This is simply false. Even excluding the innumerable organisms which grow and reproduce without the aid of brain (or even nervous tissue) and even excluding the human organs which function without nerve endings, it is possible to grow human skin, kidneys, corneas and livers in vitro without any connection to a person (or a brain) at all.

Skeptic, are you implying that what I posted was fantasy? As I said, I suspect there are scientific aspects that current science has not gained an understanding of -- and my experiences were not fantasy. How many times can one hear of a dream, then, in the near future see that vision come true, before it passes beyond coincidence? It is not coincidence when I drop an object, it falls -- it is science that we currently understand.

If you study quantum physics and string theory, you may see some strange things, too -- yet they are viewed, generally, as science.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt in your philosophy." (Apologies to Shakespeare if I misremembered the quote.)

Actually if you dreamt something and it came true then it was a coincidence. Clairvoyance is not based on Science. Also there is no such thing as science that we don�t understand, Science is a methodology. The methodology of science creates the body of knowledge, there is no evidence that what you describe is repeatable in a controlled environment. There are no peer reviewed studies that demonstrate this. If I am wrong here please forward them to me.
What strange things do you see in quantum physics and string theory? Honestly I am interested to know, then I will provide you with the evidence that supports.
I fully understand that there is much more that we don�t understand than that which we do (yet) but to chalk up your personal experience as evidence is not science.

Here is a real situation that occurs in ER rooms everywhere. I personally know an ER nurse who swore that on a full moon they would have the worse nights. They were busy, there were more strange people. In fact, the type of night they had had nothing to do with astrology (because of the moon). It is merely their perception. They are actually really busy most days and nobody notices. Then one day somebody says �hey, it�s a full moon� and they take notice. This happens a few times and they have established a pattern. Or so they think.
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Let's get back to the original question.

Looking at this now from a logical point of view, and not referring to personal experiences, what is this statement saying?

Everything that happens in our lives is the result of our own thoughts. We create our own reality.

In logic, the term 'Everything' means 'All' - and that suggests that it is not something which occurs in SOME cases, but in ALL cases. IT IS FACT! Either this belief is true of ALL - or it isn't true AT all!

If this is true, then I would ask the following questions of those who believe this concept:

1) At what age does the person first begin, or become able to create their own reality? In the womb? (now that would give a whole new slant to abortion, wouldn't it?) At birth? At the age of 5, or 7, or 12? - or when exactly? And how do you KNOW?

2) How can anyone know when a child is old enough to 'create its own reality'? What proof is there that this is even possible - let alone true?

3) And where does this end? Does it mean that those who were killed in the 9/11 attacks each created that situation for themselves? Or, were they the victims of someone else's 'reality'?

How did the victims happen to create the 'reality' to be the victims of the terrorists who had created the 'reality' to carry out the attack?

It sounds a bit (a LOT, in fact!) far fetched to me.

I really don't believe that anyone would create a horrific reality for themselves.


And for my last question:

4) If we can, and do create our own realities and our lives are dictated by our thoughts, then how come it doesn't work the other way around? How come our thoughts of winning the lottery; meeting a loving partner who will be true to us all our lives; being cured of the cancer (which we apparently created anyway - so if we 'thought' it into our lives, why can't we 'think' it out again?) and living the life of happiness that just about everyone desires and 'has positive thoughts' about attracting to themselves?

If it works one way, then it ought to work the other way as well, AND IT DOESN'T - at least not for me and millions of others.

What about you? (P.S. I have not included 'healing' in this because it obviously amounts to the same thing - the power of the mind to create, or to destroy)

Patience.

Patience, you make lot of sense.

Let me add-

What about children born with disease? Do they get that because of what they thought in the womb? Thoughts can make some changes to our reality, but lot of it is governed by other factors such as karma.

Patience (I agree with you 100%),but I think you are missing the concept a little here. Believe me I am on your side however, in the case of the 9/11 attacks, those people were part of your reality, as am I and everyone and everything else in your life. If you are creating your own reality then I am not really here. Those killed in 9/11 were only a part of your reality.

I do not believe this of course as it is ridiculous.

WOW, Skeptic, that's an interesting slant on it! I'd never thought of that. It certainly makes the whole thing so ridiculous!

Das also makes an excellent point about children in the womb.

I'm waiting now to see if those from another forum who claimed this was true are going to come and prove it! (I notice that they have come on the Athiest forum before to make their points!)

If it's a fact, then logically, facts can be proved. Beliefs can't. I think this statement is a 'belief' - and as such, is purely a matter of opinion. It is also a very judgmental, and cruel one to tell to people who have had great suffering in their lives.

I also see it as a 'cop out'. It is telling people that if their lives have been painful, then they only have themselves to blame, and it lets the people who commit the crimes off the hook to a large extent. (eg: it is saying that their victims 'invited 'it!)

That's how it appears to me anyway, but I could be reading it the wrong way.

Patience.

mmm ok lets say i dont agree with that (I do but i want to play devils advocate so I can see where this goes)!

If the victom feels he or she has chosen this life, good or bad, wouldnt that give the "victom" a sense of control and power over his or her life?

Most victoms feel powerless to control what has happened to them so by letting them say "I chose this life for the greater good and I may struggle with it at times. But i have learned from it and become better for it."

Isnt that better then no power and being a victom of chanse with no control?

(Please dont blast me I just want to see how you responed and what you think!!!);{})

>What strange things do you see in quantum physics and string theory?

Well, it's been a while, but I know the double slit interference experiment's pretty odd -- the results seem to depend on whether it is observed or not. (I can't recall all the details, but one it shows quantum patterns, keeping with the particle nature of light, the other wave patterns keeping with the wave nature of light.) And string theory postulates 11 dimensions (it's what makes the math work out.)

I remember the study on full-moon activity, too, btw. My sil (a former ER nurse) swears the full-moon has more oddball stuff, but the facts don't seem to back it up. I know I'm just as nutty the rest of the month! ;-)

What I mean by science not currently understood -- well, it is science that the earth rotates, revolves around the sun, that the sun moves in it's orbit around the galaxy, that the galaxy goes around it's supercluster -- but humans didn't have the understanding of that for a long time, and believed that the idea that we are moving (even while standing still) around the sun seemed absurd. Just look in the sky and observe. In the morning, it is in the east. Later, it is high in the sky. Later still, in the west. Obviously, the sun is moving around the earth!

But, of course, we know that is not so -- we have better understanding of the science of how the sun appears to move.

I think you were using science as a verb (as in doing good science), while I was using it as a noun -- collected body of knowledge/understanding.

As for the rest of the discussion, as far as I can figure, unless we are not real (and I am operating on the assumption that I, at least, am!), I can't see how thought can be all, and the sole cause of all problems. If I could think my allergies away, I would. I can't, I don't imagine them (and since I rarely pay attention to the pollen counts, can't say that I expect them to be bad certain days, not so bad others). Think of that. ;-)