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Even if you did, Kiki, your kids would be outnumbered. The idiots are breeding faster and more than the intelligent. I fear for the future of today's intelligent children...

Amen Kiki! Perhaps Howard should be working on developing a method to enable male childbirth so he can learn to be truly selfless. What a dark ages misogynist!

One of the biggest bingoes we get is the intelligence argument since we are both bright, college educated professionals. Even my one CF friend (who DOESN'T mean it as a bingo) teases about how we'd have little "Milhouse" (then also throws in that he'd probably be an EVIL genius). While it doesn't inspire me to the point of procreating, I do worry about the overall intelligence of the human race. What is it - the average IQ is now supposedly in the 80's? That's a little scary, no? Truly, is there any other species on this planet to which "survival of the fittest" so noticably does NOT apply?

TBunny-

Okay, what's a 'bingo'? A 'ding'?

My husband and I also are both highly educated...and we've had people say...'oh, you are so smart, you'd have such bright kids...we need more good people like you as parents.' I take comments like that as a sort of compliment...but when did this become some sort of contest of genes between the smart and the stupid? Is that a really good reason for popping out a kid?

As far as the IQ precipitously dropping in our society...I think it is based on a few reasons...which some may find offensive...so buckle your seatbelts....genetics is part of my graduate studies so....I think it is partially because our medical science has developed to a point that we can keep babies alive that 'nature' would have eliminated from the gene pool by selection.

Additionally, as I've said before, it doesn't take much to get pregnant...you don't have to be a rocket scientist....just insert Tab A into Slot B.

Then there is the macroscopic issue of us as the human species being quite disconnected from nature in modern times....especially in Western industrialized countries. We are more shielded from natural catastrophic events like floods/disease/famine/fire that would naturally check the population and promote 'survival of the fittest'.

Lastly, statistics show that the higher the education and income level of the parents, the fewer children they have....ipso facto...we CF must all be rich geniuses! Ha ha! Might not be a linear correlation . It, therefore, follows that those with lower intelligence and income are the ones doing most of the breeding...which would cause the downward trend in average IQ. Sorry, truth hurts.

Anyway, Western Europe is actually going to have a big problem with their social welfare programs because the birth rate has dropped so low there won't be enough new 'workers' to support the elderly. The demographic pyramid has flipped. The majority of the increased birth rate in the U.S. can be attributed to immigrants, actually, not native-born citizens.

And yes, you are right, we are the only species to which natural selection does not readily apply anymore....unfortunately.

Okay time for me to go to work.

pmo, I think you've hit the nail on the head with your hypothesis for declining IQs.
I've often thought that medical science can be a double edged sword, and wondered about the long term consequences of keeping babies alive who would have died if they had been born 50 years ago. Often, they can fix the problem, and that child can go on to lead a normal life, but I'm guessing that the probability of them having their own child with birth defects will be higher.
So I'm thinking that along with declining IQs, we will also be seeing higher birth defects in the future.

p.s. I also wonder why many parents who have had a child with birth defects decide to roll the dice again and risk having another child with health issues.

I agree with you there. I know nothing about genetics, but there are definitely people out there where I just know do not have all the lights turned on. My stepmom's brother is severely autistic, he cannot take care of himself at all. He has the mental capacity of a 2-year-old. My stepmom decided not to risk having children because she was worried about passing on the genetics.

The thing is - the older she gets, the more often I look at her and wonder if the lights are on in there. Sometimes I just wonder WHAT is she thinking? She definitely was not this ditzy 10 years ago.

My husband's uncle also has something "wrong" with him - none of the kids know exactly what. He is apparently very smart, but he is very withdrawn, OCD, and maybe is autistic? He can't live on his own because of whatever is "wrong" with him, he leaves the house maybe twice a year. Anyway, sometimes I see shades of his personality in his two sisters (my MIL and her sister.) They are both EXTREMELY smart (my aunt-in-law used to teach chemistry at a university.) But I sometimes see it in their personalities, and it makes me wonder if there is some kind of genetic connection there and the brother just got the worst of it, or if I'm imagining things.

Obviously these two uncles aren't going to become fathers at any point, but I can only imagine how complicated genetics can get, especially with passing on recessive genes.

I have two friends who have done just that. One delivered 2 months prematurely with both her children, and they are SOOO lucky the first has nothing wrong with him (he's 3.) I don't know about the other one, she was born 2.5 months ago, and I don't think she's even out of the hospital yet.

The other friend's first child was premature and went blind at 4 months due to a rare genetic disorder. I think there is still a possibility he may go deaf as well? They had their second child in January. No word yet as to that child's condition, but I hope they don't end up with two special needs children.

I have also run across a number of people who have high risk pregnancies, multiple premature babies, or have children with genetic disorders who go on to have more kids! Makes no sense to me! Why would you want to do that knowing that there is at least a 50/50 chance that the next one will have a similar defect????!!!! Selfish, crazy, deluded? Especially knowing how many healthy kids are waiting in orphanages all over the world! I don't know, but their doctors ought to grow a pair of balls and strongly advise against them procreating again...but it seems that nobody has the guts to tell people not to breed...it's their 'right' or whatever to doom a child to a life with serious medical problems. I swear there is more regulation of animal breeding! Sheesh.

Ugh, I'm on a roll today.

All of you who dont what children because your lifes too good the way it is should be thankfull that your perants did not think the same way as you or you would not be here to enjoy the wonderful privalige of life and all it has to offer. Not having children, when you can, is not giving some one like you the chance to have what you have, now that is selfish.

This statement really got to me. This guy is assuming a lot. What about the people whose life hasn't been all that. Or, who had miserable childhoods. Why would they want to relive that through someone else's childhood?

It got me thinking, though, and I was talking to my DH about it last night. He makes it sounds like we are "getting away" with something, and we aren't fulfilling our obligation. And I got stuck on that concept for a while.

But the bottom line is, you have to desire a child. It's an awesome responsibility, and if you think you won't like it, why sign up for it?

Anyway, then I just started thinking about the fact that we have lots of skills and talents, and things we can do with our lives. And that made me feel better. Because I am using my other talents.

Ingilbert-it sounds like your husband's uncle may have Asperger's syndrome. It is one of the autism spectrum disorders.
I've been told something like that a few times in my life. The people that have told me that all kind of say the same thing...all of the smart, educated, financially stable have a social responsibility to protect the world by having children. I think, some of them have missed the studies that show more of the highly educated women are having more than the typical 2.2 children and have chosen to have large families. So, the educated,smart "quiver full" women and the smart,educated CF women will surely balance out in terms of childbirth rates.