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Harmony,
I like you. I may have said this before, but you are very kind in your instruction of personal belief. I appreciate your gentle spirit.
Conni

O.K. Will the real Christian please stand up? If I go to a Catholic church they tell me one thing. If the Jehovah's Witnesses arrive on my doorstep they tell me something else. If I go to a Pentacostal church they tell me something different. And then there are the Mormons with Joseph Smith and the Christian Scientists with Mary Baker Eddy. Then of course, there are the Jews and the Muslims, who are not Christians, but do share common beliefs with the Christians.

The one thing ALL of you share is that you believe in the same Hebrew God. The thing that SOME of you share is that you believe that Jesus is the Messiah. Basically ALL of you acknowledge the Old Testament, while only SOME of you acknowledge the New Testament. Some say that people who are not saved go to hell.. others don't believe that. Some say that there is a trinity and some don't believe that either. Some listen to the Pope and other's don't.

So, how can you expect someone outside of Christianity to believe any of it at all? Every denomination is POSITIVE that it is the "Right" one. If Christianity as a whole can't agree on one concrete set of principles how can it function as a believable and credible belief system?

There are hundreds of different types of Pagans and hundreds of different types of Buddhists. We may not all follow the same principles exactly, but the basis of our belief is the same. And, we do not declare that our fellow practitioners are "doing it wrong."

What's the scoop?

Baptism is mandatory because you have to "wash away the old flesh" and put on new flesh. Yes, it is a public declaration that you are going to follow Jesus but there are also many verses in the bible that says "you must be born again of water and of the spirit to inherit the Kingdom of God."

That is also why just about all, if not all, religions perform the ritual in some manner. Catholics do it shortly after you are born but only pour water on the head and do not immerse the body, so like everything else, the Catholics are doing that wrong as well.

It goes along with the same scriptures that say you cannot put new wine in old wineskins. New wine must be put into new wineskins so you cannot put a new spiritual life in Christ in your old flesh. You need to wash away the old flesh to get new flesh to put your new spiritual life in.

Classic example of Christian confusion... Harmony says that you do not have to be baptised to go to heaven, Amadeus says that you do.. and he also says that the Catholics are wrong in the way that the ritual is done. Hmmmmmm... So, once again who is right and who is wrong ... based on what criteria?

I just had an epiphany..lol.. I am a follower of Jesus.. I am just not a Christian. I adore the Gnostic gospels, especially the Gospels of Mary and Judas. I love Sophia, and I am fascinated by Mary Magdelene. The Jesus presented in the Gnostic Gospels did not believe in the Hebrew God.. in fact he laughed at him.. He was a son of the "unknown creator" and the Great Goddess. I like that.

So, that is the Jesus that I follow.. and I highly respect and honor.

My criteria is based on the Bible and what I have been taught about baptism. Heck, Jesus Himself was baptized. Is anyone better than Him that should not be baptized?

As far as the Catholics go, the pope is the leader of the church there and not God. The pope is allowed to make or change laws set down by God.

According to the Catholic religion, you have to confess your sins to a priest and he can give you absolution for them and that is not true.

Jesus wants you to confess your sins out loud and to Him and He will forgive you. He says that no one comes unto the Father but through Him.

There is so much more but you get the general idea.

Well, regardless of whether I'll be made fun of for this...

Water does not wash away a person's sins. It does not transform a person - Jesus does.

But since this is a debate between Christian philosophies - I'm going to move this particular discussion over to "Bible Basics".

Hopefully see you over there Amadeus!

Baptismal is based off the jewish custom of mikvah. To immerse yourself in a ritualistic cleansing. The whole body must be immersed so that your whole body can be cleansed by G-d.

As for baptismal, I have heard both, but the universal thing taught in divinity school (yes, I once thought I wanted to be a christian pastor) was that it is the act of doing, not exactly how it is done, that is important. It is an outward expression of an inward change. It can be done with a trickle of water, by word and deed, or by immersion.

Just my 2 cents.

I am not a Christian... and I am not patting myself on the back.. this is fact. Today I helped prepare and serve a meal for over 100 homeless or needy people. I also did a clothing drive earlier this week and helped to provide those people with clothing, blankets, candles, personal care items, etc. I did a walk-a-thon for Easter Seals on Saturday. I worked a total of eight hospice hours holding hands and lending support to both clients and families as I could. I fed and cared for my 12 catkids, and several human variety..lol...

I helped a runaway teenager at the Community meal reunite with her frantic family. I arranged for a family who had been in a house fire to recieve clothing and toys for the kids..until they can relocate.

Now, mind you, I don't want praise for this.. It is what I do because that is my calling.. and I am more than willing to do what I do.

So, why on Earth would I be doomed to an afterlife of eternal suffering because I have not been dunked in water or adhered to a certain belief system? Why would my calling to service be any less than that of a Christian minister? What other human being can judge or condemn me because I do not pray or read the Bible or spew the name Jesus around without really considering who he really was and what he really taught?

I am not baptised nor will I ever be.. although I do take a daily bath..lol..

Love and Light...

I have not been baptised either ;0)

but then again, I am jewish.. it's a christian thing to do.