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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486
Gecko
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OP
Gecko
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 486 |
After reading some of the other threads, it struck me that many Christians seem to believe that they MUST try to convert others who are not Christian.
Because their religion instructs them to do so, and that those who do not listen, or agree to 'accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour' - these people will burn in hell, they feel they must try to convert others.
Their God is a punishing God. A jealous God. A God who kills his enemies.
It seems to me that they are acting, not out of love, but out of fear. This religion seems to be one which demands obedience, - or else!
Christians are taught to 'fear God' - so, to my thinking, it is one of the most fearful religions in our world. It makes threats, and promises terrible retribution to those who choose to follow other paths.
So, is it a religion of love, or a religion of fear?
Patience.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. John Adams
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966
Koala
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Koala
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,966 |
I agree with you Patience - that is how I perceive Christianity too. So very often I read something - especially on these forums - and I realise we are actually talking in circles. Non-Christians are not the enemies of Christians, and very often have the same interests and values... but there's always that one issue that brings us up against the brick wall. I would find it "funny", except for how sad I feel for these people - that I sit back and realise "These people are serious!" It seems to me that Christians fervently believe there is a war on (and not the Iraq war either), and that WE are the enemy.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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Wolf
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Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004 |
After reading some of the other threads, it struck me that many Christians seem to believe that they MUST try to convert others who are not Christian.
Because their religion instructs them to do so, and that those who do not listen, or agree to 'accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour' - these people will burn in hell, they feel they must try to convert others.
Their God is a punishing God. A jealous God. A God who kills his enemies.
It seems to me that they are acting, not out of love, but out of fear. This religion seems to be one which demands obedience, - or else!
Christians are taught to 'fear God' - so, to my thinking, it is one of the most fearful religions in our world. It makes threats, and promises terrible retribution to those who choose to follow other paths.
So, is it a religion of love, or a religion of fear?
Patience. It is essentially a religion of love. But Christians have picked up a smaller part of it and use it to threaten others into agreeing. Be a christian or you will go to hell. Christ loved all. Mother teresa never threatened. But the christians on this forum do that. They are rather managing to get more enemies by their act. Pl. God forgive them, because they do not know what they are doing.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 562
Gecko
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Gecko
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 562 |
Nice statements indeed. Yeah I think most of religions work on fear of punishment for non-believers and huge award for believers. They think others are misleading. Even in Hinduism and Buddhism it mentioned in another way I guess, our karma will affect in next rebirth or reincarnation. Who died in suicide action was absolutely sure that straightly would go to heaven without doubt. As I extracted from some posts in this forum, I think war isn't good way against such manner. War just help extremist. Maybe if this money that wasted in war, spend in education and elevate quality of living, we can see better result. We have to be patience, can't change the world immediately I guess.
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Wolf
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Wolf
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,004 |
Religion has love and fear both. spread love. Banish fear.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,513
Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,513 |
All religion is based in fear. Because of the fear of believers, the state can more easily coerce them into subjection.
Jan Goldfield
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,582 |
People are always going to turn around what Christians say or what they mean to fit their own needs or to satisfy their own beliefs.
When the Bible spoke of fearing God, He meant to love Him. Different religious denominations take different meanings of the Word different ways.
Christians are not afraid of God, we love God and all that He has to offer us. We have a personal, loving relationship with Him and wish others the same.
We do not try to convert people to Christianity. We talk about the love Jesus has for us and what He has done for us. It is the Holy Spirit's job to come into your hearts and convict you of your sins after hearing the Word and hopefully you will come to love the Lord after that.
I don't really know if you will go to Hell if you don't believe in Jesus.That is between you and God. It is just what the Bible says. I just know that if you love the Lord and recognize Him as the One who died for your sins and repent and rebuke your sins, then He is making a home for you in Heaven.
Fear isn't a God thing. Fear is a Satan thing. Satan gave us the spirit of fear. God gives us love and God is love.
Non Christians are not the enemy in this Great War. Satan is the enemy. We are all just casualities and soldiers in God's Army.
You know when I have posted things about God and Christianity, I was ridiculed and called names and that is why it seemed like a war going on in here.
Mother Teresa was a good person but she is not God. She will probably be sainted by the Catholic church if she hasn't been already but the Catholics have no business sainting anyone. The saints are already in Heaven as are the angels.
You have the free will to believe how you'd like and I have the free will to believe how I'd like. According to God's word, he wants everyone to love Him. That is what John 3:16 is all about.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
These threads often get out of hand. Feelings get hurt and it is very hard to judge the intent of some comments when they are in print, here in the forum. We can't see faces and can't 'hear' whether they are said in good spirits or in anger. I'm trusting that this thread will stay open minded and friendly. The Christians that I know have no desire to make war on non-christians. it struck me that many Christians seem to believe that they MUST try to convert others who are not Christian. If I find a great resturant, I tell all my friends about it. If I find a doctor who has a cure for cancer, I tell everybody about it. It is out of my love for people that I feel the need to do this. From my own experience, belief in Jesus far surpasses a cure for cancer.
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Posts: 540
BellaOnline Editor Gecko
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BellaOnline Editor Gecko
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 540 |
I guess what bothers me most about being "witnessed" by Christians is that I have my own faith which fills my life with joy, brings me peace and contentment and allows me to learn and grow on a spiritual level. When I talk to my U.U. friends, or Buddhist friends or Jewish friends and even some of my Christian friends, the topic rarely drifts to religion, and if it does, than they are willing to listen to what I have to say as well as what they are saying. We can have a wonderful conversation based on spiritual topics without anyone undermining the other's religion.
But, the people who knock on my door, write me emails, or seek me out sometimes in a forum, don't want to hear anything I have to say about my faith. If I try and broach a subject, like the Goddess or the condition of the Earth, or Buddhism, etc... they shoot me down and tell me that what I believe in is not the "right" way to believe and that if I continue to "hug trees" I am going straight to Hell.
I am willing to incorporate some of Christianity into my own beliefs ... in fact I do.. I have a great respect for Jesus the man as a great healer and teacher and I think that the Bible as a whole is a fascinating study of the history of Judaism, among other things.
But, I also feel that I have the right to interpret what I am reading in a way that makes sense to me.. whether that book be the Bible, the Koran or the Gnostic Gospels. I am no stranger to theology.. in fact it has been my life's study. And, I think that I am intelligent enough on a spiritual level to study, research, and look at the foundation of each religion I am reading about.
How many Christians out there that preach the gospel actually know the history of Christianity, from it's roots to it's current state? And, I am not talking just one variety of Christianity, but all of the religions and beliefs that are part of the collective whole. If you are going to be an "expert" on one particular faith, it would seem to me that you would have to study that faith and the offshoots of that faith, and then form your own conclusions and observations, based on both fact and intuitive thought.
Where did the idea of the Hebrew God originate? Why do Christians worship a Hebrew God in the first place. Who was worshipped before the Hebrew God? What is the connection the links Christianity with the Egyptians? What are the Christian holidays really based upon? Why do Christians still celebrate Pagan holidays? Why are the days of the week named after Pagan deities? Who was Constantine? Who rewrote the Bible and why? What are the discrepancies in the Bible? Who were Mark, Matthew, Luke and John, and why where their gospels picked for the NT? Where did the word hell originate? How about Satan? Why is he also called Lucifer and the devil? Who were the Essenes? How about the Pharisees? What do the Dead Sea scrolls have to add to the current Christian faith? When did the Christianity break up into different sects and why? Who were the important leaders in the Christian faith? Why do people refer to themselves as Christians in the first place? Was Christ really Jesus's last name? What does the word Christ mean?
These are just a very few of the questions that Christians should be able to answer. They are important basic facts that are the very foundation of their religion. I can hazard a bet that the Jews among us in this forum know the history of their religion, and why they celebrate what they do. So do the Buddhists.
Reading the Bible does not make anyone an expert on Christianity. Without the basic foundations and knowledge of their faith, people don't really have a clear understanding of what it is they are worshipping and why they are doing it. If they are not looking at the beliefs of their fellow Christians, they are not fully recognizing the entire belief system that comprises Christianity.
In fact, what they are preaching to others may indeed be a total distortion of fact, lack of total understanding and even disrespect to the teachings of the amazing man called Jesus.
Since Jesus did not leave behind any of his own Gospels, it is up to a Christian to look at ALL the teachings and the interpretations of ALL the systems of Christianity and even Judaism out there to try and piece together who he really was, and what he really had to say. Depending on the gospels of four men who may have indeed plaguerized each other is definately not a complete picture of who Jesus really was. In fact, it just barely touches the surface.
I probably know a whole lot more about the Bible, Jesus, and God than most Christians, and I don't even believe in the Biblical God. Most of the reasons that I don't believe in said God in fact, is because I have done my research, studied various beliefs and systems, got to the root of the how, what, why and when, and then formed my own conclusions accordingly.
So, when I am "witnessed" to.. I start to ask the questions and the Christians accosting me just don't have the answers. And, then they take cover under the old chant.. "Jesus died for you."
I think that in your face Christians are totally disrespecting anyone else's claim to being an intelligent, spiritual, well versed and compassionate human being. To tell someone else that what they believe is wrong is to insult their intelligence, their right to believe as they will, and their spirituality. That is what I object to and that is what I find as being religious superiority.
I think that Christianity is based on fear. I know that even with what little religious training I received as a child, it took me a whole lot of courage to shout out to the sky when I was in my teens.. "I don't believe in God." I wasn't hit by a lightening bolt and I didn't see any bushes burning around me. It takes a whole lot of guts to go against the herd sometimes. But, I have never once regretted by decision not to believe. In fact, that statement has led me to some amazing places, people and things that I would not have had an open mind enough to see, hear and study.
So, that is all I have to say ... sorry it is so long winded...
Love and Light...
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1
BellaOnline Editor Wolf
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BellaOnline Editor Wolf
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,914 Likes: 1 |
How many Christians out there that preach the gospel actually know the history of Christianity, from it's roots to it's current state? I know lots of them. Why not? There are scholars with every religion. I'm sorry you have had such bad experiences with those who profess the Christian faith. But there are those people in every belief. I get mean emails too and people of other faiths knock on my door. People are often very offended when I say I don't believe in what they believe in. Yet they are very verbal about disagreeing with my beliefs. Too bad there is so much misunderstanding.
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