BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids Do pals only contact you to brag about their kids?

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Snooks.

I too don't know why people with children feel that it is necessary to post on a board for people who are child free... especially when they are merely demonstrating behaviours which are being criticized here.

We don't feel the need to go over to the parenting boards and tell the people on those boards that we don't agree with their decision to have children...

Maybe we should just ignore the childed individuals who post here.

I am with you guys--and I am curious as to why people with children post here. I have never thought to go to the parenting boards...or married with kids boards...

When I get down about the way I am treated or looked down on by the mommies I run into, my husband reminds me that by making the choice I have made I am somehow threatening their lifestyle. Saying it is wrong without verbalizing it. I think this is hard for most of us to understand, since it seems like those of us who have chosen to not have kids are the strong, independant types who don't feel threatened by mommies or anyone else!

"don't be so hard on mommies--maybe offer to help"???

Helping out w/other people's kids is the last thing I want to do w/my free time.

I understand that you want to be "always there", however it is imperative that you take some time out for yourself. I don't have experience as a mom, but I have experience as a child whose mom was always there.

The good points--I certainly never got into trouble. Someone was watching my every move!

The bad points--my mother had invested her entire life in me and my brother. She had NOTHING for herself. You can see this as selfless, sure. But since my mother missed following her dreams she pushed these dreams onto me. Once I was ready to be on my own she had no idea what to do as an individual and continually inserted herself and her views into my life. I was never allowed to be an individual. I had to be an extension of her. I understand the dynamics now that I am in my 30's. At 20, I seriously considered disappearing and letting noone know where I had gone.

I never asked my mom to always be there. That was her decision. I do believe that growing up it would have been healthier, particularly in my teen years, to have had some space.

I am going off on a tangent, but to any moms that are reading this, regardless of whether you never do anything for yourself and focus 100% on your kids, there is no guarantee your kids will turn out the way you had hoped. Please be aware of this and remember that it was your decision to live ONLY for your children. I imagine that on this board I am not the only one who has experienced this. My parents were (and may still be) disappointed that their investment did not "pay off". Be prepared for your children to go their own way and give them the freedom and the space to do it.

I wish my mother lived for herself and not just for me and my brother.

I couldn't agree more - I had the same experience with my mother. As a result, my 20's were incredibly difficult for both of us - it was one long constant argument. To this day, she still has no idea who she is or what she wants. I hate that for her. I really wish she would have spent some time during my childhood exploring who she was....I really wish she would have found some interests and hobbies. It would have been good for both of us. As a teenager, I needed some space and needed to be allowed to grow into my independence, but that didn't happen. At retirement age, she doesn't have any real interests to keep her entertained and busy. Being constantly "selfless" for your children isn't really all that selfless in the end...

My grandma was a stay-at-home mom and her whole life revolved around my dad and uncle. She married early and had kids early. She never learned to drive, and she didn't have a job once she had kids. After my grandpa died, my dad and uncle ended up having to do everything for her and drive her everywhere. She was very, very needy. She complained about everything. If you didn't call her every single week she was going behind your back to the rest of the family complaining about you. She couldn't do anything for herself. It was really all a ploy to get people to come visit her (and it's not like she was neglected - not by a long shot!) She also didn't have any friends except for her sisters-in-law. It's also sad because she made a lot of her own family resent her because we always felt like we could never do enough to make her happy.

She went into a wonderful retirement community a few years ago, and she just blossomed. This 80-year-old lady is now more active than I've ever seen her. Most of the time I can't get ahold of her by phone because she's so involved in everything, she has SO many friends, and she's always helping the ladies who can't walk as well, or who can't see as well. I tell you, it's like being with a completely different person! I think she's also now feeling regret that she quit her schooling and her job. It's kind of sad, though, that she didn't have that opportunity until she was 80.

My mom is the opposite. She was a really good mom. She was always really involved in Girl Scouting and doing tons of trips with them. I would just go stay with my grandparents (my parents were divorced.) But she took me to gymnastics twice a week and was my Girl Scout leader and took me to piano lessons and never missed a single performance. It was really good because then it showed me that I could be really busy and still have a life. Of course, when I graduated high school she pretty much moved in with her now-husband. The point is, she was around just the right amount when I was a kid - it made me independent, I had enough space, but I never felt like I was abandoned or anything.

Overloading kids with parent time is ridiculous. Kids and parents need to have their own separate time - for their own sanity.

wow.. didn't realize I crashed your board. I just thought the Christmas letter, which this topic was originally about, was interesting. Now I find the entire conversation interesting. And just an FYI, I have absolutely nothing negative to say about being CF. I was originally commenting on the Christmas letter--that mom probably feels like she accomplished something. As far as the issues, I was never a play date mommy, I don't know what a pram is, and yes--new moms are exausted. It is beyond me why a parent would share their childs latest teething bouts with anyone--unless it's just another reason why they're exausted. As far as criticism and chastising, you are correct it is unkind, selfish and self-centered. So if commenting, don't be so hard on mommies is criticizing, chastising--sorry, it wasn't meant to be, and no, I don't get it. But the one thing I have concluded is that parents and CF will never truly understand the flip side. And it's most unfortunate that friendships are lost because of it, because of lack of time or lack of a common thread or maybe both.

I honestly don't mean to be harsh, but a few of the things you said sounded chastising...like a mother to a child.

Here are some of my frustrations and observations about friends with children - and they may very well not be true for you....

1. It's just not possible to have conversations on the phone anymore with friends who have children - the children always demand attention. And if they don't get attention, then bad behavior begins. Ultimately, my friends will have to get off the phone after a few minutes to go be with their kids. My frustration with this - when I was little, I was not allowed to interrupt my mother when she was on the phone. If I did, I got into major trouble. Today's generation of parents (at least the ones I know - both family and friends) are incredibly appeasing and lenient. It's really hard to wrap my mind around a fit-throwing child controlling whether or not the adult mother gets to have a phone conversation (and let me just say that not all of these children are toddlers - some of them are definitely old enough to know better). I guess it's just a different generation....

2. If I make plans with friends who have children, they inevitably get canceled - sometimes due to illness (which is perfectly understandable), a babysitter falls through (sucks, but also understandable), or getting ditched for other female friends who do have children. This last one happened to me yesterday (and not for the first time) - my best friend and I had plans and she forgot we had plans (which were made only the day before)....she went and had lunch and spent time with other women who do have kids. I'll be honest - I'm not talking to her right now because of this. I'm frustrated and this kind of situation has grown tiresome.

3. When you are around your friends and their children, you have no recourse if the child acts badly towards you. You can't discipline them or even tell them "No, you may not act that way." If you do, your friendship suffers. So, if little Susie or Johnny hits, kicks, bites, etc., you just have to take it.

4. The conversations I do get to have with friends with kids revolves pretty much around stories about the kids.....24/7. Normally, they only ask about how things are going with me toward the end of the conversation when they're rushing to get off the phone. That gets tiresome, too.

5. I'm very much expected to think that whatever little Susie or Johnny does is cute. Unfortunately, it's not always cute....or entertaining. Parents get very touchy about people not being as entertained by stories and events surrounding the children. And let me reiterate, there are stories and events that are cute and entertaining - just not all of them.

6. I do think women without children have a decent understanding (not an expert understanding) about what it's like for women with children - we are surrounded by women with children. Every single day, week after week, year after year, we are constantly surrounded by women with children. This understanding of how much work is involved in raising children tends to be why we don't have them. I've seen how much work is involved in raising children - from birth all the way through teenage years and what I've seen has led me to decide it's too much work. But I'm guessing that most women who have children don't have many women in their lives without children - at least according to my friends and family, it tends to be that way. The majority of women in my life have children....

It's not just the toddlers, either, Snooks. Below is an article about today's college students. Having been told "yes" all their lives, praised constantly, and told that they're "special" (sorry...if everyone's special, then that means that nobody is special), they're very self-centered and exceedingly easily frustrated by real challenges as young adults.

Excessive praise and focus on each and every development in the child's mindset every second of the day has led to this sorry development. These kids should have been out in the backyard, scraping their knees, digging in the sandbox...or (like my favorite pre-teen memories) just reading a book in the hammock on a summer's afternoon, not getting trucked around to cram courses, karate classes, and 10 soccer games a month. Kids have no time to be kids anymore; no time to develop their own resources or problem-solving skills; no space to really get to know themselves outside of an adult-supervised situation.

Some of the happiest kids I see in my work are figuring out their own problems (an adult is nearby if there's a big problem, but otherwise the kids are left to their own --- like during the after-school hours at the school where I work --- to "knock the edges off each other", as we're found of saying at my school). Nonetheless, I still see some of these problems at the high school where I teach, even though our school focuses on fostering independence and self-motivation (almost to a fault).

Read it and weep...what kind of adults will these kids become?

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funny thing, I agree with the majority of the above... hmmm a common thread? I do believe that parents, more often than not, are appeasing. At our house we had to choose our battle. Otherwise it would be a fight all the time. Lenient, we weren't. For some odd reason a single conversation took place, and we were fortunate to raise three responsible teenagers. They paid the price for it in otherways, their peers really never understood why attending the local party just wasn't optional. Not to worry, they get plenty of it at college. One teenager to go.. and who knows?

I think parents are more appeasing now than ever before because more often than not both spouses work outside of the home. It's a lack of energy and a numb mind thing. And parents are often on different pages from one another; what's important to mom isn't important to dad and vice versa. Again, a time thing.

And Snooks, it was just really awful of your friend to cancel your lunch date. Telephone conversations can be awful--that I do get. One time my oldest, who was six at the time, was in the yard reading her book, the phone rang and I said watch your brother. I went in and had a great conversation with a friend, came back out and my son was missing. If it wasn't for the dog... he was in a field with a monstor tractor running. It was horrifying, as the driver would have never seen him. So it's bad for both you and your friend, maddening to a point.

My youngest, now 13, was a difficult child at best. To the point she would growl at people, I will never understand why. Thankfully she has grown into a pretty nice young lady, but there were days I had no idea what to do, and believe me I tried it all.

Kids don't have the chance to be kids is so true. In our community it isn't even the parents who impose that on kids, it's the school system and extra curricular activities. If you are not in the gym all summer, you'll pay the price for it in the fall. It's absolutely insane. We were fortunate enough to have the above--reading books and the sandbox, but then came the high school years, and one finds out it's no longer summer fun...