BellaOnline Forums Relationships Married No Kids What happens after I make the decision?

hello, i'm new, though i've been a lurker for some time. i've just finished reading the "my husband wants kids" thread and found i still have some questions of my own. i'd appreciate any experiences you're willing to share.

first, i am 28 and have been married 4 1/2 years to a man i have known since we were both 15. we are great friends, lovers, and have a lot of history with each other.

the long story short is that he wants kids and i don't--for a variety of reasons that have already been discussed. last summer i voiced my opinion with finality for the first time, instead of saying "i just don't know."

the ensuing discussion sent us into a tailspin that, thankfully, got us to counseling. you see aside from the kids question our marriage was also in trouble for other reasons--lack of communication, lack of respect, poor sex life, rinse, repeat. after one session of venting, our counselor wisely observed that we were both so angry about these other things that whether or not to have children was way down the list of issues to tackle.

now after several months of counseling i can honestly say that our marriage has improved drastically. we put the work in on a daily basis and have a relationship that is fulfilling and still developing. it know it's overly simplified to say that our marriage is better, but it is--in every way.

despite all that, the question of children remains unresolved. i know that having children is still a deal-breaker for my husband and i know i still don't want them. so i am trying to come to terms with the idea of offering him a divorce.

part of me wants to hold on for a while in the hope that i'll change my mind, but i know it's unfair for me to keep him waiting another 2-3 years. (32 is the latest he wanted to start having kids.)

i know we're probably better off ending things now than we would have been a year ago--at least now we have a chance to stay friends, or at least to be civil during the process. it just seems particularly unfair to be in such a better place and still know we can't stay together.

i know there are others who have found themselves at this point and gone through with a divorce. i would really appreciate hearing what your experience was like. how did you decide to divorce--that you had made up your mind about kids? are you glad that you did it when you did it? do you have any regrets about how it occurred? are you still in contact with your ex? do you have any advice on how i can handle this? does your ex feel you "wasted" his/her time?

i'm putting on the brave face, but the truth is i love my husband and hate to think of not being with him, but i know--even if i don't feel--that it would be worse to have a child to stay with him or try to convince him to change his mind about having children.

Well, a question for you:

Does he have experience with children to make an educated decision?

If not:

I think it would only be fair, on his part, to try to actually deal with kids before saying his decision that he wants them is real. Does he really want to raise and nurture a child, or does he "want" kids for some of the amorphous, overly-self-indulgent reasons like "carrying on the family name", "having someone take care of me when I'm old", "passing on my genes", etc., etc.

Are there any nieces and nephews he could spend more time with? Not just babies --- tweens and teens, too? Does he have any experience with kids (and, just as importantly, with the qualities of actual life as a parent?). Or is he caving to societal and/or family pressures to "be a man"?

Failing that, he should volunteer at the local Boys' & Girls' Club, or become a Big Brother (there are traditional matches where you're expected to spend 3-4 hours together every two weeks, and also "in-school" matches, where you spend an hour a week, in school, with a student (doing homework, shooting baskets, whatever). As a past (and future) Big Sister, I can tell you that there are *so* many young boys (8-14) looking for role models now that they've often had to resort to pairing them with women in the effort to at least get them matched with a role model of some kind. What a huge shame.

If he already has the necessary experience to be truly educated in terms of what he'd be getting into as a parent, then...well, yes, it's probably time to say goodbye, and as amicably as possible. There are no half-measures once one becomes a parent.

I like to use the analogy of making other (*any* other) compromise in a marriage (with the possible exception of one partner wanting to get a sex-change operation, which is also irrevocable, like kids!):

Say your partner gets a crazy new idea for a business...for instance, his uncle leaves him a mushroom farm in Alaska. The business is yours for the taking, but you've got to uproot everything if you want to take the opportunity. Thing is, if it doesn't work out, you can always move back home and try something different --- even if the idea is as crazy as Alaskan mushroom farming.

Almost any decision you make as a couple is something you can try, and then back out of if it doesn't work out --- except parenthood.

I'm just sad that you are in this situation. I think that Western society actively encourages people to *not* think about this issue, even though it's the most important one there is. We've got enough people on the planet, already...it's not as if we have a shortage. Shouldn't we put more effort into think about the *quality* of our lives, whether adult married couples' or children's?

I'm sorry for your painful position, and I wish you the best.

Elise

thank you, you've given me much to think about. you've about hit the nail on the head.

my husband, unlike me, has almost no experience with children at all. he held his first baby last year and hasn't held one since.

i on the other hand have babysat and been the responsible party for my own siblings, neighbors' kids, and cousins, cousins, cousins. i have experience taking care of babies, toddlers, grade schoolers and pre-teens, and i've mentored lots of high schoolers. i've also cared for sick kids and kids with special needs--from the stomach flu to autism. i feel like i'm making a truly informed decision, while he isn't.

so the idea of asking him to try to gain some experience sounds like it would be worthwhile, except...

there's more...and this is what makes me feel that it just wouldn't be fair to really try to change his mind. he is the youngest in his family and the only boy. his two sisters (2 and 4 years older) are chronically ill and have been told they can't have children. one is divorced. the other is separated and about to start the process of a divorce. kids just don't seem to be in the future for them.

i know that beyond the idea of "carrying on the family name" there is also the guilt that would come with "squandering" his health and his good fortune if he doesn't have kids when his sisters can't. even if he had my experience being with children, i'm not sure that he would feel any differently about wanting to have them.

do you know of couples where the person wanting kids has been successfully persuaded not to have children without completely damaging the relationship?

Hi vcage, and first off, welcome. Like bonsai, I feel like you are in a very bad situation where it's hard to decide what to do.

I just read your two posts, and in the second one you said that there aren't really kids in the family. I just have a question: does he feel that this is the reason he should have kids? To please his family? I hope not, but it happens. Again, like bonsai, this is a very unfortunate situation.

And about couples where the person wanting kids has been "persuaded" not to have them, I've been in this situation. Let me say one thing before I tell you, however: not everyone will be "persuaded" or change their mind this drastically or quickly. A month after my fiance and I met, I mentioned that I couldn't stand kids, and we began talking about them. He said he'd wanted one, and I asked him why. He said he didn't know, just that he'd thought it'd happen. We both ended up crying over the situation and I told him, "If you want kids, I'm telling you right now: leave." I didn't tell him in a negative way, just a sad way. He basically made up his mind that a loving relationship with me was better than having kids. And now that he knows this, he says to his father when we're over his house(his father has three little kids), "I'm just glad I get to give them back to you." To be honest, we're not even over there more than two hours. So I believe he was never meant to have kids (also judging by his attitude around them where he basically ignores them, and he says, around me sometimes, "I'm glad we're not having kids because..."). But, like I said, he loves me very much (I'm not saying your husband doesn't love you), and kids were never important to him. So it depends on the person.

Good luck to you, I hope everything works out.

It's beyond me how someone with NO experience with kids can feel strongly about wanting them. Maybe it's easier for men, because they can count on the woman to do the bulk of childcare. But still, beyond the fairy tale of being the one to "carry on the family bloodline", caring for children is not a romantic thing. You have the experience of working with children, he doesn't. Is he truly prepared for all the work having kids brings? Or does he think that's a mom's job?

Reading between the lines, it sounds like there's a lot of family pressure on the kids front, and that's just not fair. Why is it considered more acceptable to try to pressure someone INTO having kids than trying to persuade them not to? I would think it should be more of an imposition to try to convince women in particular into having a baby, because we have to put our health and lives at risk in a pregnancy.

Anyway, I hope you are able to work it out. Maybe when faced with the prospect of divorce, your husband will decide it isn't worth giving up his marriage for the nebulous possibility of finding someone else to carry on his family line with.

Cindy

It's not fair of him to ask you to change yours, either. There's nothing fair about any of it...



So, in a way, it's about giving his parents grandchildren? (Another insufficient reason to have children)...(Believe me, I do relate, to a point --- I was deeply relieved when my older brother had twins when he was 35 and his wife was 40, after years of IF treatment...not only because it's cool being auntie, but because it would help get my mother off my back about grandchildren....



Yes...when the party who "wanted" kids was just going through a knee-jerk exercise in societal/familial expectation, and then actually gave it some serious, independent thought for awhile. There's a couple in the CF Meetup I organize who's in this boat.

Again: Why does *he* want kids? Or rather, why does he *think* he does?

Elise

I also don't understand why some people want kids so badly, but don't know anything about them. The only "real" responsibility my husband has ever had with kids was the year that he taught gymnastics to a bunch of high schoolers - and they were really cool boys, they needed almost no discipline and were mature for their age. So, there wasn't too much supervision needed.

I also agree that women do the bulk of the childcare. If my husband (whom I love very much) gets home from work at 6 and tells me he is too tired from working all day (he sits in front of a computer) and can't do the dishes, how on earth would he play with a child, discipline a child, etc.?

I guess it's kind of like me - all I've ever really wanted was a horse - though I have a moderate amount of experience with them, I don't really know how to take care of them or anything. I figure if I ever get to the point where I can own a horse, I'll learn everything and volunteer at stables and whatnot. Prospective parents should be required to do the same thing, but with children.

Do you know that almost everyone I end up telling how I want a horse makes a lot of fun of me. First, I don't know why it's something to make fun of. Second, I don't make fun of them for wanting children!

Inglibert, horses are much like children in many ways. They need constant care, find creative ways to hurt themselves, and eat and poop a lot. :-) While I've never owned a horse, I've been around them, ridden them, and cared for them enough to know that it's a HUGE time and financial commitment. I've been lucky enough in the past to find people who have horses they don't have time to ride, and gotten to ride their horses for free or a small amount of money. Probably the reason I've never owned one is because I KNOW how much time and money goes into horse ownership, and I've never been willing to take on that kind of commitment.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend ANYONE buy a horse without doing a LOT of research into what it takes to care for a horse, and how much money it will cost, any more than someone who has no idea what caring for a child entails should consider trying to have a child without putting a lot of thought and research into it first.

Cindy

PS And I won't make fun of you for wanting a horse, because it looks like you would seriously educate yourself about it first. :-)

I know how expensive they are, and one summer I worked at a zoo on the horse run, so luckily I do know the difficulties of it. However, I think exactly the same can be said about kids. The thing with animals is that they are - I don't want to say predictable - but they are trainable and controllable to a degree that children will never be.

Sugar gliders are a lot of work, too, and can be very expensive. Because they're exotic animals, when they get sick vet visits are several hundred dollars. They eat regular food (veggies, baby food, and fruits) so I have to buy them that in addition to their own supplements. They have to have their cages changed around constantly so that they are always interested, their bedding needs to get changed every two days, the cage is huge and hard to scrub down but has to be done every 1-2 weeks, they need a lot of attention so that they don't get bored. Plus, I have a neurotic glider who has always been very nervous from the day he was born, so he pulls fur out of his tail and I have to come up with lots of creative ways to keep him interested in things, and my other gilder was abused when she was a baby (I got her from a rescue) so she only likes the other glider. It's taken me 4 years to get her to voluntarily climb on my arm for a treat ... bottom line is, I wouldn't recommend gliders to everyone.

Same with kids.

Unless I get rich, I probably won't live out my dream of having a horse.

And thanks for not making fun of me. They're called dreams for a reason, right?

ingilbert, your glider stories sound a lot like some of my rabbit stories! People are amazed at how much work goes into them, and they are also "exotic" (anything other than cat/dog is exotic in vet terms). In rescue, more than half of what we do is try to talk people OUT of getting rabbits as pets, esp. if there are children involved. In spite of what the media shows, rabbits and young children are NOT a good mix!

I think the horse analogy is an excellent one - almost everyone can relate to that gauzy vision of riding a horse, wind in your hair, etc., but most people realize they could/should not have a horse of their own. Too bad no one puts that kind of reality check on having kids.