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I had some free time this afternoon and did some article reading with regards to tax monies funding childcare, and various related subjects. Of all the articles I read and differing opinions on the matter, there is only one thing that really sticks out in my mind: So much emphasis is placed on the importance of childcare ie; ridgid background checks on workers and facilites etc etc, and the hefty costs incurred ensuring the safety of the children in these facilities.

But did you know that the average pay for a childcare/pre-school worker is that of a parking lot attendant? Astonishing! Parents want first rate care for minimum wage salary - and they want taxpayers to saddle the bill. If this is such a critical, all-important necessary fact of reproducing, shouldn't it be one of the first, most important factors in considering if one should even reproduce to begin with? Why does it seem to be almost an after-thought, when it is proclaimed to be such a critical necessity in the raising of a child?

Fire

Good point. We make such a big fuss about how much we care about children in the USA, but we *never* put our money where our mouth is (methinks that if we actually cared so much about children, we wouldn't have to *talk* such a good game). Childcare workers are only the most egregious example; frequently, they don't even make a wage sufficient to keep them out of abject poverty.

Another is teaching, which is nominally considered one of the "professions", like law and medicine.

I teach in a private school, where I get a LOT more autonomy, respect, and time off (but less $ than my public school colleagues). But my public school colleagues frequently don't even have a chance to get to the bathroom during a work day --- there is literally no downtime, and it's *planned* that way. Hell, even people working in poultry plants for minimum wages get a stipulated bathroom break.

Tell your average doctor or lawyer about teacher's bathroom issues, and couple it with the amount we make (particularly in proportion to the master's-level degrees we're usually expected to attain), and they'd be rolling in the aisles with laughter. Were not anywhere on par with them in society, in terms of $, respect, perks, you name it.

Elise

yes, I'm a former public school teacher and could barely get a chance to run to the bathroom which was especially hard when I was pregnant. Even your "planning" time isn't planning time at all. I was a dedicated teacher and brought work home every night. I averaged 70 hours per week.

About childcare, I put my son in daycare that first year and paid $160 a week to have him in the best daycare in my area. I had worked in daycare for years (during college) and knew about the high turnover and other problems. I found that, after paying for childcare, I was bringing home next to nothing. Why would anyone want to do that? I quit my teaching job and pulled my child out of daycare so *I* could raise him myself. Even at the "best" daycare, his care was mediocre compared to what I could give him.

Now I'm home but working a bit as a writer and homeschool consultant. I'm able to have the best of both worlds.

But my point was that I totally agree about childcare really lacking in terms of quality. Even in the best center, your child is just one of a large group. There are many negatives to having your child in daycare but it seems to me that most parents just see it as the norm.

What puzzles me is the attitude that childcare outside the home is portrayed as a necessity. I can think of three couples I know off the top of my head that work different shifts to avoid that issue completely. I also don't recall any of them whining about it, as they are all aware that parenting requires some sacrifices.

i've worked in a childcare center, taught in a private school and now teach in a public school.

when i was working in the childcare center, i was drilled repeatedly before my first day about the govt restrictions on how many children per worker or teacher. however, on my first day, i had 15 18-month-olds to myself because we were short-staffed. i spent the entire day basically just changing diapers and taking legos out of their mouths because for some reason, the director thought it would be a good idea to store the legos in their section. i tried to remove them to a different area, but each day, they would be put back in the 18-month-old section. how stupid. they also wanted me to be the lifeguard in the summer for their swim program. i told them i can't swim, i'm TERRIFIED of water because i nearly drowned when i was a child, i don't know CPR, i have panic attacks around water and pools. they said if i didn't want to be the lifeguard, they'd replace me. they replaced me that day. i swore that day (i was 19 at the time) that if i ever had children in the future, i would pay extra to find private childcare because the chain centers are sh**. just my experience.

when i taught private school, my husband and i were actually below poverty level because my "salary" was so low (he was still working on his bachelor degree, so wasn't employed at the time). i didn't have any downtime and taught 6 different subjects each year. the stress was horrible. no health insurance, hardly a salary, no budget for supplies, etc. it wasn't a good situation, but i did learn to juggle responsibilities at the time. and we learned to budget and survive.

now that i've been teaching public school for more than a decade, i'm still struggling to keep up with the stress. i get a decent salary, but i wish we were paid according to what we do. i teach 5 different subjects, and i also head and coordinate tons of meetings that are required due to one of the subjects i teach (bilingual/esl). the state is constantly requiring more paperwork and responsibilities for me regarding the bil/esl and i'm working a ton of time after work just for that subject. however, other teachers in my school who teach just 1 subject 5 hours a day are making the same salary. i often wonder how is that fair? but no one listens. and since most teachers i know (including myself) tend to be like sheep and just follow along and let others tell us what to do and what we should accept, well, i dont' fight it. i am starting to get more vocal at work about it though. my principal is starting to listen finally as well.

as for bathroom breaks, i have a bladder disorder due to a medical treatment i underwent 3 years ago. i've had to explain to my vice principal (a 25-year-old man) why i don't want to switch classrooms because the one i'm in now is closer to the bathroom and that i need my schedule arranged so that i can have bathroom breaks. they are aware and try to work with me. also the teacher next door has been relied on several times to peek in on my class while i have to make a dash to the bathroom. it's okay though, because i help her out when she has an asthma attack or has to get her daughter early from school. she's the only coworker whom i'll help out when she needs something like someone to cover her last class while she picks up her daughter. and only because she's covered for me. anyone else can kiss by [censored], lol.

anyway, i don't know where i'm goign with this. sorry. been a VERY long day. i guess i am trying to say that the national chain childcare centers are really not that great imo. they don't follow the rules or at least they didnt' a million years ago. perhaps nowadays they've started to follow the regulations. but i doubt it.

and then i just started to vent, <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />ops:

We were often over ratio too.

And by the way, the ratios are horrible in the first place. I mean ELEVEN two year olds to ONE teacher? That's the ration in FL.

holly: Feel free to go off on a tangent, that's what this forum is here for - I don't mind when things get off track. It's no big deal. Sounds like you work in h ell! Good Lord...but I HAVE heard working for public schools makes for bad treatment of the teachers. My sister-in-law is a special ed teacher who just couldn't take it anymore and is now teaching 5th graders. I don't see how she does it - God bless her.

I agree with all of y'all that childcare centers are basically, for the majority of them, worthless. But why shouldn't they be? Look at the meager wages they impose on the employees? My mom was a pre-school teacher for years, but she refused to take any of their garbage. They paid her well, Tutor Time in FL if any of y'all are familiar. I used to go visit her at work and the children (three year olds), would always be wide-eyed little 'clingers' as I used to call them. Man did they love her, and so did the parents. My mom rocks. I used to tease the children and say: "NO! MY Sara"! as I pulled their tiny, griping little hands from her pants then hugged mom tight. The looks were hilarious. Even I have to admit, some of them WERE cute as h ell...but only SOME mind you.

If I had a kid, it wouldn't see the inside of a daycare, ever. My mom was at home with all three of us until I was in the fourth grade, when she went back to work. I'm the youngest.

Fire

I agree with you Fire...
Daycare costs and conditions were two of the things that made me really THINK about whether I should have children or not. With hubby and me both working, our choices were basically putting the kids in daycare, hire a nanny or one of us staying home to look after them. I would go NUTS staying home with kids (yuck!), we could not afford a nanny, and I would not want my child growing up in daycare (and going to daycare before and after school when they reach school age). Growing up in daycare does not seem like a nice life for ANY child (certainly, it's not a loving, nuturing environment). AND the kids learn that they can do whatever they want as long as they don't get caught.
Anyways... I don't know why ANYONE chooses to have a child when the kid has to spend their formative years in daycare. It's no wonder the world is going to he** in a handbasket.

Amen. Why have it if you're not going to raise it? What's the point? So you can get a Kodak moment or two when the little precious is asleep? I don't get it.

I was hired on at a daycare center at age 17 with NO experience save a short babysitting stint at age 15 (and they knew this). They gave me an entire class (20 kids) of 3-5 year olds and left me to sink or swim. I had no idea what I was doing at all. I lasted a week. It was ridiculous. I was embarrassed when the parents came to collect their progeny, some of them probably had kids at home my age. Jeeze.

I just wanted to say that it's not necessarily true--that you would go nuts staying home.

It really is a joy as long as you have a good balance. I was very career-driven (and quite the feminist) but I've chosen to be home with my kids. I've talked to moms who weren't happy at home, but they weren't active in the community and they weren't going out at least once or twice a month.

My kids and I are out and about all week long. We're not really HOME. We're interacting with other parents and children so I have friends to chat with while my kids hang with theirs. I go out once a week for coffee or dinner with friends and I do some writing at home. All I'm saying is that, if you do ever decide to have kids, don't write off the idea of staying home like I did. I put my baby in daycare and THEN realized I wanted to raise him myself. I never wanted to be a full-time mom. I wish I had realized during pregnancy the joys of staying home.

Of course, in those first few months, your baby poops, eats, and sleeps..LOL Not the most exciting but this time around I was out and about with the baby in a sling. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It certainly wasn't boring!