BellaOnline Forums Religion and Spirituality Atheist Can Atheism REALLY be defended?

SOrry I forgot to mention TD is Texas Dave - he was another nutter we had on the forums but he was kicked off a while back <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Michelle, please understand that I don't lump you in with the people my posts are primarily directed at. I can respect what seems to be your approach to christianity. I don't, however, think that it can be said that religions through the ages have done much (on a large scale, not on an individual basis) other than threaten to control.

Well I think I feel insulted because the way you have used the word "religious".

Here is what you said:
"Scarey thing is alot of "religious" people think like this" and most of the times when atheist use that word they use it as a, you know, a dirty word. But I am sorry to say but what do you mean by the word religious? I am asking that because religion has become one of those word that everyone thinks they now but very few understands it.

And also I wanted to comment on what you said.



Well I am glad they atleast they have their religion that will stop them from doing such things unlike you guys because You think you don't even a religion. I am not sure what will keep you guys from doing what Jordon13 said he would have if there was no God.
I mean what will stops atheists like Catana from arrogantly saying other people are stupid because they believe in something logical unlike her or other atheist who do what they want and take what they want from doing it?

I am hoping noone feels insulted eventhough there might be a cause for them to feel so. LOL

Yep, 'tis a dirty word to me, G-L-Y. Religion is the business of scoundrels and the crutch of those who refuse to think for themselves. Religion is the belief in the unbelievable.

Everyone,however, is quite free to believe in whatever they wish .... even if it is blind dogma.

There is nothing you can say that will make me or others agree with your christian stance - which is clearly the reason why you have come on this message board. You think you can convert the godless. This is not the choir and we are not the converted. Save your time for those who want to believe they are doomed without religion.

There is only life. There is no god.

Oh, and by the way, your spelling, grammar and verbal articulation leave a great deal to be desired .... perhaps more time spent on those would be more beneficial than preaching to the unconverted and unconvertable .... just a thought ...

The fact that "some" people need religion to stop them doing terrible things speaks volumes in itself....Athiests dont need religion to stop them doing terrible things as they dont have an agenda to please some god.Good athiests are just like the rest of us.They treat people the way they want to be treated.

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I cant be insulted...:)

While it doesn't seem to be the popular stance, Jordan13 brought up some good points. Maybe it was in the delivery that most got so upset, but I got what they were saying.

Without a belief in a greater power or anything beyond this life, why do we have a moral code? Outside of avoiding legal consequences, why should we do anything but what we feel is right? If a person can rob people and not get caught, why shouldn't they? I know the argument is because they are hurting others, but why does that matter? With no consequences, why should we care? I would think we would be focused on living life in the manner that made us happy.

As for the earlier comparisons to child sex, who deems those to be wrong? It wasn't too long ago that girls were married off at the age of 13. Some places in the world still practice this. Are they wrong and we are right? What makes us right? Because we decided it was wrong as a society? The societal decisions for what is wrong is rooted in Christianity.

I, in no way, support the idea of apathy to others nor child sex, but I also believe in a higher power. I have a fear of consequences for my actions and a hope of reward, even if that means not doing something I want to do. As an example most Christian religions don't condone premarital sex. Yet most people will concede they wanna do it and it's fun. Yet some people choose to give it up because of their religious beliefs. That creates a different moral code for them. Others will argue that it's our instinct to sow our oats. Yet it's hard to ignore the social problems that have arisen as a result. So is it better here to follow what one is taught, even if it goes against desire, or is it better to follow instinct?

I know I won't convince those who don't believe in God that there is one, but maybe they might ask themselves a few more questions or give it a bit more thought. To me there is no more depressing of a thought that there is nothing beyond this life. I'd be terrified every day if I believed that. I believe Mark Twain said something along the lines of "no man dies an Athiest" and I would wager that to be true. Who wants to be on their deathbed believing there is nothing waiting for them. And I think why most people, athiest or otherwise, follow a moral code is for the what if. What if God is real? Better to live a good life and find out God exists than to live a bad life and find out he exists.

I respect your personal position on religion, but what makes you think that atheists haven't thought long and hard about their choice? The question reminds me of the insistence that women going to a clinic to seek an abortion be forced to listen to counseling and wait a certain length of time so that they won't make a hasty decision. Neither one of these is something that anyone would be hasty about. Isn't it somewhat insulting to assume that we just pluck atheism out of the blue without thinking seriously about it? Though I know you don't mean to be insulting.

I can understand your fears, but I don't share them, and obviously neither do a lot of people, in spite of the comforting belief (comforting to religionists) that everyone accepts god on their deathbed. That's as false as the myth that there are no atheists in foxholes, as many atheist veterans have made perfectly clear.

Putting aside the question of religious belief and why you believe, it's always a mistake to assume that others feel as you do about everything. Jordan may feel that he would be free to do anything he wanted if he was an atheist. But that is either a result of his ignorance about atheism or an acknowledgement that it's only the rules and threats of religion that keep him moral, because without that set of rules he wouldn't know how to behave in a moral way. I don't know which it is and I wouldn't presume to judge. But he and at least two others on this board constantly judge people they know nothing about.

And, as several of us have said, we don't find it depressing to think about the nothingness after death, nor is being an atheist a depressing way of life. In fact, I'd say that without the fears that religion instills, most atheists may actually be happier than believers.

I would engage in a historical data mission concerning the percentages of crime involving religion as opposed to those not concerning religion before making that statement.

As for the idea of nothingness after death. I find that comforting. The reward for living is getting to stop, in my personal belief. And the punishment for having lived badly is dying knowing that you've been wrong and you've not been worth the air you've used. I don't imagine there's a hell that could be worse than that feeling.