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Joined: Aug 2006
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Jellyfish
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Jellyfish
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Oh (and I state ahead of time that this can rile some, so remember I select my words carefully), and I don't believe we are obligated to care about other people.
We are obligated to respect the rights of other people, to uphold justice for everyone, but caring about people is something we (should, at least) choose to do because we recognize something deserving of caring in another person.


Jenna Sawyer
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Chipmunk
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Chipmunk
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Very well said, Jenna!


Jan Goldfield

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Shark
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Shark
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Quote:
Some spiders eat their own children. I argue humans HAVE those traits BECAUSE of a MORAL compass inside them. The idea of a moral compass is contradictory to primal nature.


Some religious humans 'eat' their young also ... like the woman who drowned her children so Satan wouldn't have them.

So, are you arguing that animals do not have a moral compass? You see, there are many species of animal that do share in the responsibility for taking care of their young, defending the mate and offspring against predators, and participating in a community for survival. The animal kingdom shows that it is possible to behave in ways other than "survival of the fittest" without this 'moral compass'.

Have you done any reading on cognitive behavior studies in animals? Recently Alex the Grey Parrot recognized ordinality - on his own. If animals understand and behave in ways similar to our own, how can we 'require' a moral compass?


Denise Lacazette
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Gecko
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Gecko
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I'm glad someone brought up the subject of animals.

To add to this, let me ask the theists and other believers in a Supreme Being why it is then, that a dog will rush into the sea to save someone it has never met before from drowning?

There are several cases where this has occurred.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


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Amoeba
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Amoeba
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It would seem that they fear societal retribution. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Oct 2006
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J
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Quote:
We are obligated to respect the rights of other people, to uphold justice for everyone, but caring about people is something we (should, at least) choose to do because we recognize something deserving of caring in another person.


By whom? Why? If I was an athiest I wouldn't give a thought to any of that. I'd take what I want, when I want. That's assuming I believe 100% that there is no PURPOSE or creator-force (which I would never), or GOOD in the world (which can only be a product of a creator-force).

That's the basic idea of athiesm. Anything else implies a moral guide that PRESUPPOSES some sort of spiritual retribution for negative action.

If there is no spiritual retribution, then there is no reason to do good. Since "good" is just a manmade concept that doesn't matter if there is no creator-force.

I really wonder, you claim to have a purpose without a creator. That is the very definition of NOT having a purpose. To not have a creator-force, means you are but a RANDOM spawn without purpose from a universe that was "never created".

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Gecko
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By whom? Why? If I was an athiest I wouldn't give a thought to any of that. I'd take what I want, when I want. That's assuming I believe 100% that there is no PURPOSE or creator-force (which I would never), or GOOD in the world (which can only be a product of a creator-force).

This is your opinion of atheism. Not a world standard for all atheists to live by.

That's the basic idea of athiesm. Anything else implies a moral guide that PRESUPPOSES some sort of spiritual retribution for negative action.

I think you have no right to make this statement because you stated in the previous quote "if you were an atheist" clearly implying that you are not.

I really wonder, you claim to have a purpose without a creator. That is the very definition of NOT having a purpose. To not have a creator-force, means you are but a RANDOM spawn without purpose from a universe that was "never created".

Again clearly a simple opinion, not fact. Don't drag out the Websters either.

It's no secret who I am and where I stand, but you can't come into a forum like Atheism and attempt to change the tide. Just like you can't go into the Bible Bascis forum and question the authenticity of the Bible. Healthy debate comes from respecting both sides of a conversation, and in the end, no one is right or wrong, but everyone is heard and something is learned.

And if you are the way it seems you are, a believing Christian out to challenge intellectually, then you will remember that in the Bible there is the verse that states that even those who have never known God will know in their souls right from wrong. I'm not attempting to quote verbatim. So knowing good from evil is a natural part of our make up as human beings. Treating others with kindness is a common thread amongst people in cultures all over the world. You and I can attribute this to God, but others are allowed to feel a connection however they choose. It is free will my brother and nothing more, to argue against it would be to argue that God made us wrong. Plant a seed of love and move on.

I'm not going to argue semantics either...you can say creator-force all you want but we all know Who you are alluding to.


JESUS DOESN'T HOLD UP A STANDARD, HE HOLDS UP A MIRROR AND SAYS REFLECT ME!
Jenna Robinson
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Wolf
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Wolf
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Who created the world according to non believers?

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Amoeba
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Amoeba
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CD, you really should read the thread before asking, but being as I don't know you, I'll answer.

Non-believers are not a cohesive unit. They believe as they choose. I personally believe that something happened and we came to be. I don't know what.

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Amoeba
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Amoeba
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But I do have something to ask Jordan. You said if you didn't believe in God you would take what you wanted when you wanted it without thought to others. So you don't do that out of respect/fear/whatever of this god. I don't do that out of respect for myself and others people's right not to be treated poorly. Who has the more developed moral code here?

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