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Gecko
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Out of all respect to everyone, I don't believe anyone suggested that what I said was hateful.

I respect all beliefs and was only answering Carennedy's question regarding what I believed. My response about the devil was in response to a statement by BiblBasixEditor.

To perhaps clarify what others have written in criticism of Christianity and some Christians, I think it is very possibly because many Gay people, men and women, have been deeply hurt, and even traumatized by the comments and treatment they have received in the course of their lives. Allow me to give you some examples from my own life. Perhaps this may help good Christians (and there are MANY) to understand why there is often so much anger towards Christians and Christian teachings from the Gay Community.

This will be long, but please bear with me?

Beginning with my own life. As a small child I was ritually, sexually abused by a Christian Priest and one of his flock. (There are hundres like me who suffered the same things.) It continued from age 4 and a half to almost 7. As a result, and as a life-saving coping mechanism, I developed Dissociative Identity Disorder, previously known as MPD. I still live with this disorder at the age of 67. My whole life was ruined by this atrocity which was done to me in the name of Christianity. I was threatened with hell fire and worse if I ever told anyone.

Because of problems I had as legacies of this abuse, I was told by some Christians that I was a wicked child and that God did not love me. Again I was threatened with hell fire.

But still I loved Jesus and wanted to serve him, and I did my best to be a good Christian. I loved everybody - genuinely, no matter what they did to me. I tested my vocation to the Religious Life in 1966, where I became a postulant in an Anglican Order of Nuns. I only remained for 6 months because one of the nuns who knew me well told the Superior that I was a lesbian. I got kicked out.

I went on, working with abused children and also became a lay preacher in a church which welcomed Homosexuals and did not reject them. I studied to become a minister. During this time, I counselled many gay people and heard their stories of persecution by Christians. Some had attempted suicide because of the hatred they encountered. One succeeded.

During the time that I was a co-worship co-ordinator of this church, I attended a gathering at which I was attacked by a group of christians from other denominations who told me that they could 'feel the devil eminating from me' and they shunned me like I was a leper. They told me, and the members of my flock who were present, that we were all damned because we were gay, or condoned homosexuality. one shouted: "When Jesus comes, You'll GET YOURS!" Another told us that it was a pity the old rules of the Bible didn't still apply, and we could be "stoned to death"! As we walked through the crowd, carrying candles, we had things like "ABOMINATION" yelled at us.

On another note, I had a friend (?) tell me that she would no longer be my friend unless I agreed to go to her church and have 'the devil cast out of me'.

And what was the basis of all this hatred? No, it wasn't the Christians themselves, it was WHAT THE BIBLE and the CHRISTIAN RELIGION TAUGHT THEM! They were only repeating what the Bible had to say, or that they thought it had to say, about Homosexuality!

Every time you quote Bible verses condemning homosexuality you GIVE PEOPLE THE AMMUNITION TO ABUSE HOMOSEXUALS - and believe that they are doing God's will! that's what it all boils down to. I am not against Christians. They are only following what they believe to be true. I am against the TEACHINGS of Christianity, - and this is why I am no longer a Christian. NOT because of a few misguided Christian people.

It isn't surprising that when people dish out hate, they end up getting hate back.

I hope this helps my Christian sisters on this list to understand more clearly how Homosexuals feel, and why they might react as they do.

Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


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Gecko
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I would also like to remind you all that the title of this particular thread is "Homosexuality and Christianity"! - so we DO have a right to be here and speak our minds!

Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


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Parakeet
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Patience,

I realize that you have suffered and suffered terribly. I don't want to be added to this list.

It sounds like you didn't find the love of God where you should of, what you found were the tools of satan working to ensure you never would. God must have had great plans for you for the devil to work so hard to misguide you.

Ya I know you don't believe in Satan, but I do and I believe that you have been lead astray by him because God loved you so much and had such a large plan for you that Satan was very threatened.

The sins of the older denominations histories are the result of satan using the guise of the church to turn people away from it. The people who committed these acts were not Christian but get lumped in with us. Please understand that Jesus instructed us to do so much more than we have, we've let you down and for this I am very sorry.

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Quote:
I would also like to remind you all that the title of this particular thread is "Homosexuality and Christianity"! - so we DO have a right to be here and speak our minds!


I never said you didn't have that right, but I also have the right not to be called names.

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Patience

I just wanted to re-iterate that I do not find anything you have posted to be disrespectful or unkind. I have viewed it as more of a conversation and awareness. It is those that are mean and hatefilled that have come after yours that I directed my posts to.

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Gecko
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I agree. I don't like names or labels. We are all special people and deserve to be treated with respect.

And I do thank you for the kindness of your words in response to my long epistle! As I said, there are MANY good Christians, and I admire your dedication. There are things we do not agree on, but that's OK. Wouldn't it be a boring world if everyone agreed with everyone all the time! (smile!

Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


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Parakeet
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I agree -- so lets agree to disagree on this one topic.

I was going to ask, before all this other stuff, if you had seen the movie We don't know anything? I didn't like it but you may.

As much as I wish you would see the love of God again, I know that may not happen. I wish you the best of luck on your journey.

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Gecko
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No. I haven't seen that movie. Perhaps it hasn't come to Australia yet!

As far as knowing the love of God, I can say that I do know I am being 'watched over'. I prefer not to give it a name. But as love is such a huge part of me, I acknowledge that it has to come from somewhere. I just accept that 'something' is there, and just go on loving as I always have. I am incapable of hate. I find something to love is every life form, and I regard all life as my teacher.

Nothing has been lost. My experiences have not made me bitter.

With all kind thoughts,
Patience.


Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
John Adams


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Parakeet
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Quote:
We are the only minority left to whom it OK to say, "Die, faggot!" or "You can't teach my child, you lesbo dyke!" "You are all abominations!" "We were attacked by Al Queda because of you!" "Katrina destroyed New Orleans because of you!"


Scared individuals that do not understand God will look to those things they are not at all and blame them. It is unfortunate because most people today are not like that. Anyone that thinks Al Queda came after the US because of homosexuality needs a contemporary history lesson. As for the rest it is all ignorance and hate filled.

I can't say I agree with your lifestyle but I do believe that you have the right to choose it. I may not agree with abortion but I do agree with the right to choose it. God gave us the right to choose his way or the other way, who are we to take away the right he gave us.

Jesus was perfect, Christians aren't please stop expecting us to be.

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Woah, I don't check the forums for a few days and all heck breaks loose.

Hmm, how do I say this without starting more problems...
basically, I understand why those like loveapple have posted what they have, I think patience summed it up quite well in her post; it is very difficult not to be angry with a group of people you percieve to have done you wrong. However, as Carennedy quite rightly points out, not all Christians are the same and not one of us on this earth is perfect and this is perhaps not the place to vent such anger as most of the views posted on here have been respectful and not designed to attack anyone.

Sometimes I find it difficult to respect the views of certain faiths because of my own negative experience with a few bad eggs and people who use religious beliefs as an excuse for anti-gay sentiment (though they are not actually religious, do not go to church, etc), but lately 3 of the kindest and most forgiving people I have met are christians (2 protestants, 1 catholic) who are very serious about their beliefs and to me represent how christians should behave. These people have changed my opinion and allowed me to be mindful and respectful of all points of view, to judge a whole group based on the experiences you've had with only a handful of them is wrong no matter where you're coming from.

Anyway, I geuss that's all I really wanted to say...I suppose it's just a big hippy 'everyone should love each other <img src="/images/graemlins/lovers.gif" alt="" />' type post but I felt like it needed to be said so, yeah.

Oh and
Quote:
What's a fundie???? Don't have that term up here in igloo land of the never ending snow!!!


It's short for fundamentalist and is generally used to describe those with very strict and right-wing christian beliefs.


"When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion." Abraham Lincoln.
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